Nate did good
> "Fd. 3/4" I.P. set by UG Jackson 1937" falling 0.12'N & 0.08'W of calculated position. In my opinion this is a far sight less professional than Nate's adding a cap to an accepted position...
:good:
> In California, it's required.
This is an interpretation taken by some, but it's not one with which I agree. §8772 of the Business and Professions Code states that "[a]ny monument set by a licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer to mark or reference a point on a property or land line shall be permanently and visibly marked or tagged with the certificate number of the surveyor or civil engineer setting it." It doesn't say anything about found monuments.
Ian, are you aware of another code section that specifies marking of found monuments?
I would say probably not, although the answer could depend on several variables. If that monument is called for in the deed or adjoining deed, then why alter it? If it is the monument of record then it should be perpetuated, unaltered.
If it was not called for in the record documents, then maybe you could cap it so that the next person who comes along would be able to look for your survey or attempt to contact you.
I suppose in the end it is a question of opinion, to which there may be no right or wrong answer. I probably wouldn't do it though.
Depends on what state you're in and the circumstances. Working in the west where are are recording laws this would be quite common. Besides record of surveys we have various titled record of corner monumentation forms. So if you change a monument or add an accessory it gets filed with the county. This is most common with PLSS corners. Rebars, pipes, etc., depends on the situation. The reason for the cap or sometimes tag is so that the public can identify that it is a surveyor's monument, not the proverbial goat stake. They can use the LS number or company name to find out about the monument. It is not the surveyor's monument, it is the landowners' monument. Yes, that old stone or old piece of rebar is beautiful to us, but what is needed to preserve it's integrity? Marks on stones fade, stones crack. Plastic caps fall apart, and aluminum caps can be taken off. If you accept a found monument you're as liable as if you set the monument. So what's the problem? You're going to leave that rotting wooden post just because it's the original? If you're in a state where there is nowhere to record your monument upgrades I can see the problem. I'm just glad I work where there are recording and filing laws.
Evelyn
I forgot to add that yes it may be the monument that is called for in a deed, but hopefully no surveyor would survey just using a deed. Hopefully, he/she would look in the records for surveys that tied and possibly upgraded the monument.
Having different caps marked FOUND or ACCEPTED sounds like the best of both worlds. It adds information and no confusion.
Required in Colo on PLSS monuments, unless it's the original stone. A real PITA to epoxy a cap onto an axle! Dumb rule, if you ask me.
Depends..
I have tagged pipes that were goodies, generally I do not, and it is not required in
California though some may disagree with that.
I do believe that resistance to tagging accepted monuments will be from those states that do not have a recording law.
Just depends...sometimes yes, other times no.
The whole idea behind putting a cap with a name or number on it is so that anyone who finds it afterwards can contact the person who set it, if they need more information.
When that person contacts you, you can explain all about the old pin and the new cap.
If they aren't interested enough to contact you, then information about the history of that corner is probably of no importance to them anyway.
And, as stated above, there are some states which require a surveyor to put his cap on any monument he accepts.
:good:
Nate's right on the money with his efforts. He's left a found monument in better condition than he found it for all the reasons aptly stated by Evelyn.
It's not about monument recovery, it's about the perpetuation of the recovered evidence. In a recording state, that's made easy for future generations. In a non-recording state, the only ones to blame for the lack of preservation process is the surveying profession.
JBS
> ..... In a non-recording state, the only ones to blame for the lack of preservation process is the surveying profession.
>
> JBS
Boy! That's the truth!
Count me on the side of those who only cap pins they set themselves.
In Illinois we're not required to cap anything. I'll cap my pins. Only my pins.
Like CA, it's also required in AZ. I think. Nobody really does though, which sorta kinda establishes local practice. Just stating what you found on your plat should be adequate. But I don't really see anything wrong with tagging an old monument you are accepting, as noted on the plat. Once you accept it, it becomes yours anyway so why not bless it with your tag.
Much better than a note that states "FD 1" ODIP 0.12'N & 0.05'W of postion". Did they accept the corner or not? That one has always confused me.
> I forgot to add that yes it may be the monument that is called for in a deed, but hopefully no surveyor would survey just using a deed. Hopefully, he/she would look in the records for surveys that tied and possibly upgraded the monument.
If that was the case, there'd be no surveying in Tennessee.
> > In California, it's required.
>
> This is an interpretation taken by some, but it's not one with which I agree. §8772 of the Business and Professions Code states that "[a]ny monument set by a licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer to mark or reference a point on a property or land line shall be permanently and visibly marked or tagged with the certificate number of the surveyor or civil engineer setting it." It doesn't say anything about found monuments.
>
> Ian, are you aware of another code section that specifies marking of found monuments?
I was wondering the same thing. I know OC was requiring this at one time, but has backed off of the requirement.
I generally do this, but not everytime. If I find a PK nail in a CL intersection, rather than a called for RR spike that fits ties, I will remove the PK and reset a spike and washer with my LS number.
Like Wayne said above - here in Arizona, you need to add your RLS# to a found and accepted monument - if it does not have any other identifiers on it. For instance, for a untagged rebar or pipe, you should add a tag or cap to it. If you find a City or County cap, you're not required to add your RLS # to it - but a plain cap with nothing on it - you should stamp your #.
"In a non-recording state, the only ones to blame for the lack of preservation process is the surveying profession."
JB, I somewhat disagree. Virginia is not a recording state. I usually find ample evidence of a boundary and the adjoining boundary to make an informed decision as to where I will set monuments. The only evidence of monuments that are depicted by a record are usually on the previous boundary map or in a deed description. I don't find it a problem to survey without the information that recording states require.
Of course Virginia is colonial.
It's been an interesting thread so far. Very enlighning
One regulation is this one for subdivisions:
So any found ones have to be stamped and or upgraded. It's caused some arguments.
Should you cap ALL FOUND & accepted monuments?
This is kind of an interesting thread. Shows some of the inconsistancies in laws & thinking amongst us.
So you're doing a typical 1 acre lot survey in a 40 yr old platted subdivision. You find a bunch of original monuments up & down the street, and a few back corners. Maybe 8 or 10, but enough to complete your survey with confidence. None of them are tagged, but you're pretty sure they are original.
You get to your lot, find the rear original ones, one oddball replacement in front that fits ok, and have to set the 4th. I'd tag the replacement, along with mine. I'd leave the rear ones, and all the other ones I found alone, and just note them as found on the plat. Which does get recorded because I set one.
If I find all 4 original untagged monuments, I'd just show it on the plat and be a happy camper. But I wouldn't tag them, and by finding them all I wouldn't have to have it recorded.
I guess I better read up on that tagging part of the statute. I try and just do what makes common sense so the next guy knows what I did. Not to be lazy, but to start tagging all accepted untagged monuments used in a survey would be waaayyy overkill.
edit: For those concerned about cap sizes, plastic, brass etc, it is common practice around here to simply wire a brass tag (1 1/2" or 1/2") onto the found pipe/bar, etc with a sturdy piece of wire. Kinda silly for sub surface but works.
It says SET. What in this requires any remarking of a FOUND monument?
