Here is a photo I took as I drove through Land Between the Lakes (LBL) earlier today.
This is a newly constructed four lane divided highway. The paving is less than a year old and we have really not had extremely unusual weather (a little heavier rains than normal, but not too bad).
It doesn't show well with a cell phone pic, but that painted white line in a circle is over one entire lane in width, longer than a full size pickup, and even after having asphalt dumped in as a temporary fix is about half a foot deep. It is the worst of eight similar 'bad' spots in this new about 5-mile long roadway.
From rumors I have heard, the company that did all this work has gone bankrupt, reformed as a different company, and either currently have or are in the process of getting more work from the state highway department. Hopefully, they will at least have to fix these problem areas before getting more work on the taxpayer dime.
I'm no expert on these things, but it really seemed to take a very long time in order to accomplish a poorly done job.
Quality control is cheaper than remove and replace. That's our motto.
I hear that Roadie!
Looks like bad subgrade compaction mixed with probably not enough oil in the batch.
Always enough time to do it twice, but never enought time to do it right the first time.
Sheesh
-JD-
The feds didn't have the same inspectors we have to deal with.
There was a job at Shiloh Military Park where the paving contractor had the wrong size rock in the asphalt. The inspector wanted it taken out and replaced. The contractor offered to give the asphalt to the feds. She said no. She then said she didn't want the asphalt milled out, because they could reuse it. She wanted it taken up in big chunks.
> She then said she didn't want the asphalt milled out, because they could reuse it. She wanted it taken up in big chunks.
Good for her. An inspector doing the job she was hired to do.
The inspectors who allowed this should be on the hook for this equally with the contractor.
But how about a little common sense. They were going to pave the road FOR FREE!
> But how about a little common sense. They were going to pave the road FOR FREE!
Who was going to pay to tear up, dispose of the crap asphalt, and repave later? Common sense says you do the job right the first time, it will always be cheaper in the long run.
Besides, your contractor isn't that stupid. The asphalt is either okay or it isn't. If the inspector will accept the asphalt if it's free the contractor then claims it was okay after all, and demands to be paid. It is the inspector's job to see that the job is built to specifications, not to juggle specifications to suit the budget. That juggling is project engineer's job. Your contractor friend knew that and was playing a little contractor game.
I have seen this before, and the cause may be an underground spring (water).
Nothing you can do but re-pave it every so often.
> Nothing you can do but re-pave it every so often.
How about installing some drains and compacting the soil?
They tried that here in Sherman on a stretch of new concrete highway that was build a few years back. But after several failures, they decided to just leave out a section (100' +/-) of concrete over that area and place asphalt in it's place. About every six months or so, they remove the asphalt and subgrade and replace it with new.
Apparently, the underground spring eats away at the compacted subgrade from below and causes a slow sink hole effect.
> >
> That juggling is project engineer's job.
very true... materials change by availability and price, the project engineer's job to respec or reject, not the inspector's duty.
It appears from the photo that the area in question could be in a 'cut' and not a 'fill' area. The failure looks like base failure and not surfacing.
I'm sure contracts are different all over, but around here sometimes all the contract calls for in a cut situation is compaction of the existing subgrade. If the material isn't suitable for compaction, it would be up to either the contractor to bring it to the inspector's attention or the inspector in person to determine the quality of the existing material and its ability to be compacted.
The contract may not have called for anything other than compaction of the existing subgrade. Determination of the quality of the subgrade would most likely be a function of design, not construction. Any material brought in to replace poor existing subgrade should be addressed as a pay item.
Although both the contractor and inspection were probably aware of the subgrade's condition, the contractor may have completed his contract successfully.
Perforated Pipe, quality qp (quarry processed), filter fabric and proper compaction.
I agree
We've used under drain pipe for leaching away ground water. We've also built a filter medium of a layer of filter material, a layer of coarse stone and topped with another layer of filter material. This particular road was across a really wet area that would have a lot of heavy truck traffic. That was nearly twenty years ago and it is still holding up with just normal wear and tear, even after being completely flooded at least twice.
Andy
> > But how about a little common sense. They were going to pave the road FOR FREE!
>
> Who was going to pay to tear up, dispose of the crap asphalt, and repave later? Common sense says you do the job right the first time, it will always be cheaper in the long run.
>
The contractor.
By the way, when the next phase of this project started, the park manager threatened to shut the entire project down if that inspector was still physically on the park.
My question
Is WHEN are they going to replace the old riveted girder bridge? That thing is so narrow that two cars can hardly pass.
Andy
Good Question
I wish I could tell you it would be soon. Last I heard, they (Highway Dept) have a plan approved for the bridges. I guess it is just a matter of funding and starting construction.
Maybe Randy Gray will know more about that and post an answer.
I'll have to get a good picture of a portion of the bridge that I have been noticing for the past few years and post it. It is looking pretty scary of late.
It is a narrow bridge, there is no telling how many mirrors are at the bottom of the lake right under that bridge.
If an underground spring is carrying away subgrade material that means there is water movement, and installation of proper drains will carry the water without carrying away the subgrade. Just slapping more asphalt on it every so often doesn't solve a very solvable problem.
BTW - If there is an underground spring and no water movement, well, around here we call that a swamp.
I certainly don't mean to complain
The Land Between the Lakes is a beautiful park. It sure is nice to have a park that large with all the wildlife and scenery that goes along with it. It's just a pain to get in there sometimes.
Andy
