Setting ORIGINAL C¼ - Trick Question
Well Kent, you're on to us again. You must have procured a copy of our super double secret PLSS Handbook for Non Texans and flipped to page 521 where they show a crew putting the finishing touches on a brand new Center 1/4, the setting of the very old fence corner post. Yep, that's exactly how it's done.
Setting ORIGINAL C¼ - Trick Question
> Well Kent, you're on to us again. You must have procured a copy of our super double secret PLSS Handbook for Non Texans and flipped to page 521 where they show a crew putting the finishing touches on a brand new Center 1/4, the setting of the very old fence corner post.
Mike, I hate to point this detail out, but that photo you posted is of a mechanized bona fide rights installation. As readers of this message board will know, bona fide rights are the end of the hunt, cadastrally speaking. You run into some of them, bubba, and you're done. Naturally, the manner of creation or installation of bona fide rights is the topic of seminars from now until next Christmas (which comes early and often for the seminar presenters) and is why that machine plays such an important part of any Center of Section Monumentation Program. First you get the old fence posts set, then you invite various surveyors to give their opinions as to the proper location of the corner (preferably on the internet for free) once they've seen a photo of a fence post of obvious age in place.
It'll be at the intersection of two straight lines
> It will not fall on a curve of latitude. The Manual is only a recommendation, not a mandate on non-Federal lands.
>
> As "I" am now the first to survey within the section, whatever "I" decide is correct is how it is going to be and how it is going to stay.
>
That is a load of manure.
but..It'll be at the intersection of two straight lines
On the curve, like the manual says. Straight line = Line of constant bearing. Works for me 🙂
Sounds like you better set it and show it on the map rather than just computing it and only setting around your parcel:-/
> On the curve, like the manual says. Straight line = Line of constant bearing. Works for me 🙂
Exactly.
In 10 years, when someone finds your corner and sees that you documented what you did. They will also see that you were the first surveyor to set that particular corner and they will have to accept your position, no-matter how you did it or where you set it. (If it is still in it's original position)
If that someone was me, I'd just be happy that something was already there;-)
Radar
>be happy that something was already there
especially if only one thing was there
:good:
If you set it on a straight-line intersect, I would accept it when I retraced your work. If you set it on an intersection of an east-west curve-line with a north-south straight line I would accept your monument.
If I were retracing original notes, and I saw how they ran the line, I would try to imitate their line.
> I would try to imitate their line.
[flash width=560 height=315] http://www.youtube.com/v/BQ4yd2W50No?hl=en_US&version=3&rel=0 [/flash]
:snarky:
I amend my comment
The facts as I see them are that the State owns land that was subdivided under federal rules. The scope of work appears to be divide the some portion of the State's holdings according to federal rules. You are attempting to decipher the meaning of the applicable rule(s) that would allow you to provide a professional service that meets the scope of services of your agreement with the State. I would ask the Chief Blm surveyor in your state for guidance on the meaning of the rules.
Straight line = Line of constant bearing
Except in the manual where it discusses straight east-west lines actually being straight on a line of changing bearing and the east-west lines of constant bearing being the parallel line on the true latitude curve. Only in the BLM world are straight east-west lines straight and curved east-west lines straight.;-)
> Except in the manual where it discusses straight east-west lines actually being straight on a line of changing bearing...
The manual doesn't say that. It says that a line of sight is a line of constantly changing bearing and is NOT a straight line. Section 2-15
I amend my comment
Why would you need the chief BLM surveyor to interpret the plain language in the Manual? Besides, he/she has no authority on non-federal interest lands.
2-13. By statute, in the PLSS datum, the term "straight
line" is used when describing a line of constant bearing.
The term has a different meaning from that used
in geodesy, where a straight line corresponds approximately
to a line of sight or a geodesic.
Circles of latitude are often called parallels. A parallel
of latitude is an east-west line. Such a line crosses
each meridian at 90° or right angles. A parallel is a basic
example of a line of constant bearing because it crosses
each meridian at the same angle
3-114. To subdivide a regular section into quarter-sections,
run straight lines from the fixed quarter-section
corners to the opposite corresponding quarter-section
corners. The point of intersection of the lines thus run
and fixed will be the corner common to the several
quarter-sections, or in other words, the legal center of
the section. This method of subdivision is outlined in 43
D.S.c. 752(2)(cl. 2) and 753(c1s. 1 and 3). In this application,
"straight lines" implied "lines of constant bearing"
(43 U.S.C. 752(2)).
As for the erroneous myth that the subdivision lines are "established" by the protraction diagram on the plat as mentioned in the previous thread, from 3-137:
"The protracted position of the legal subdivision corner on the survey plat is merely the first step in fixing the position of a corner. The corner position is fixed by the running and marking of the lines."
Way to stir it up Loyal.......... 😉
2-78 "The secant is projected 6 miles is a STRAIGHT line, and as the measurements are completed for each corner point, proper off-sets are measured, north or south, from the secant to the parallel."
The parallel also described as latitude CURVE-which is a line of constant bearing. As I say only in the BLM world;-)
Also see tangent method a straight line with segments of changing bearings.
"...and punch mark the intersection for the button pushers and retards..."
OMG is that funny! Spit coffee all over everything!!!
Thanks for the comments guys...
I have set [original] C¼s “on the curve” for years (decades), but in reality, most Sections that NEED a C¼, already have one (as alluded to above).
Be all that as it may, computing the intersection of two loxodromes (rhumb lines) does get a little tricky. As a practical matter, most (if not all) North-South Centerlines can be assumed as grid lines without imparting any noticeable error into the solution, so that just leaves the East-West Centerline. This computation can be handled several ways, from knatsass to +/- <0.01 from a look-up table.
In my neck of the woods, this 'correction to the curve' amounts to about 0.12 to 0.2 feet at the C¼ (“SOUTH” from the 'grid' intersection). IMO, this is a non-trivial correction in most cases.
So it really just boils down to...proceedure, proceedure, proceedure.
Loyal
Loyal,
Did you mean trivial? Or did you mean vital? Inquiring minds need to know.
FYI--procedure only has a total of two "E"s. Put them wherever you deem best.
I amend my comment
:good:
And of course once you had the intersection computed you went out and grubbed around to see if there was any evidence that someone had actually already set the center.....
You never know. In 1908 the County Surveyor or Cap Anderson from the USGS might have had some spare time and decided to break down the section.
If it is truly a blank slate it is yours to draw on. Whatever you do it will be right.