Setting corners in an ALTA

Tell him, "Sure. That'll happen shortly after I beat Santa Claus, the Sandman and Jimmy Hoffa at the game of Monopoly we are currently playing."

Assuming this is a true statement, politely tell him state regulations require you to set corners (and file corner records). No need to lose a job over a Title Company.

I would drop my price

In Connecticut it is an option to set corners.

Joe

I would drop my price

What's the point of having property surveyed if you don't set any corners? Seem like you could make a drawing of the deed and call it good.

I would drop my price

Most clients that have ALTA's done are not looking for corners. They are looking for encroachments, parking counts, zoning issues, etc....

I've never understood this

> Most clients that have ALTA's done are not looking for corners. They are looking for encroachments, parking counts, zoning issues, etc....

So, they couldn't care less about the boundaries of their property, they only care about what is on their land, what is not on their land, and what crosses or affects their land.

Hmmmmmmmm. go figure.

In Illinois our state standards for a boundary survey specify monuments be set unless the client specifically requests they not be.

I've never not staked an ALTA corner, although I have not set a boundary corner when the survey was only to satisfy an EPA requirement and the client didn't care about them and also asked they not be set in order to minimize cost. I don't like doing it, but sometimes it happens. If it's my project, they'll get set, but they're not all my projects that I get dragged into.

It does rub me the wrong way when I discover an ALTA that's not staked, but technically they can avoid doing it.

I've never understood this

> > Most clients that have ALTA's done are not looking for corners. They are looking for encroachments, parking counts, zoning issues, etc....
>
> So, they couldn't care less about the boundaries of their property, they only care about what is on their land, what is not on their land, and what crosses or affects their land.
>
> Hmmmmmmmm. go figure.

Most clients don't know what they want; they only know that they want to save money where ever they can. The Title Company or the bank is the one that tells them to get a survey. The title company wants to place the liability onto someone else and the bank wants to protect it's investment.

Just like a termite inspection or hiring a Real Estate Agent; they are a necessity in closing the deal. Their standard fees are fixed and part of the closing costs. A survey, showing all encumbrances to the property just isn't that important, I guess. Why? Because of cost?

I got an email from the client this morning. He has decided to take the standard title policy and purchase the property without a loan. The property is valued at around four million so I guess a little over six grand is a little too much to pay for piece of mind....

Corners are required in TX, OK, AZ, & NM. I have to double check on Kansas. It has been too long and I haven't went into the minimum standards in detail in a while.

B-)

The Maryland Board’s view is:

1. The statutory definition of a boundary survey is “means of marking boundaries for sufficient definition and identification to uniquely locate each lot, parcel, or tract.”

2. The ALTA standards represent a contract between the surveyor and the client where the client has the authority to decide if the boundaries are “marked” or not.

3. If the client specifies that markers are to be set, then the ALTA survey falls under the regulations for a boundary survey; if the client declines to have the corners marked, then the survey is regulated under a generic catch-all category in the minimum standards for "Special Purpose Surveys”

I've never understood this

They do indeed care about the boundary, but they don't necessarily care about the monuments at the corners of the boundary.

I've never understood this

I guess a little over six grand is a little too much to pay for piece of mind....
Hard to believe. Fee works out to .15% of the purchase price. See if you can get the realtor to take that kind of commission.

I've never understood this

The typical ALTA I did was commercial property often in a subdivision. The boundary runs down the planter strip between the two parking lots. So, no, they don't really care exactly where the boundary is, they just want any potential issues identified.

If the area is poorly monumented wherein the Surveyor could help future generations then, yes, monuments should be set, but often there are plenty of monuments that can be used to establish the boundaries.

2011 ALTA Standards

"3.B. Other Requirements and Standards of Practice - Some Federal agencies, many states and some local jurisdictions have adopted statutes, administrative rules and/or ordinances that set out standards regulating the practice of surveying within their jurisdictions. In addition to the standards set forth herein, surveyors shall also conduct their surveys in accordance with all applicable jurisdictional requirements and standards of practice. Where conflicts between the standards set forth herein and any such jurisdictional requirements and standards of practice occur, the more stringent shall apply."

If your state has regulations that require corners be set on boundary surveys then per the ALTA standards, Item 1 of Table A is not optional.

It is required in Colorado to set missing corners. Colorado views ALTAs as a monumented land survey. So I'd tell them they get them set or found, like it or not.

Kansas is Client Option.

B-)

I would drop my price

I would say that about 75% of our clients decline to have their property staked...maybe more. Commercial clients almost always decline. It costs more money so they don't want it.

Tom

I would want to set the monuments for my own purposes. If you are showing encroachments, and improvements in relation to the boundary, I suggest that you need them. They are probably smart enough to know that you can calculate your locations mathematically in relation to the mathematical boundary, but I think you tell them you need the corners in a similar way you would tell someone why you need traverse points in ground. I wouldn't bring traverse points up at all, and just refer to the property corners in similar language.

You might tell them that your cost is the same, and that you set the corners at no extra cost since the bulk of the work is determining the boundary and the incidental work is to actually drive the monuments in the ground. They are for you (if not for them). But they would have the added benefit of being able to come back out and show their neighbor where their corners are, or if they ever need any further survey work from you, you don't have to come back and rerun in the corner locations. (if you set them all you have to do is shoot between them and make sure they haven't moved).

Seems like stating the honest fact that setting a corner is not really that much work in the scope that goes into a survey, and as such does not change the price, would be gentle enough.

As far as I can tell the hard part is getting to where you set the corner, and you already need to carry a bunch of crap (shovel, metal detector etc...) to the corner anyway so driving a rebar or setting a tack in lead is not going to really break the bank at that point.

Looks like while I left the window open to write this post, the same was already stated. *edit*