Self Employed Vs Employed

Kirby,
I suggest that during your evaluation period that you spend some quality time with the people in your current employ who do the billing and banking, prepare the tax forms and insurance applications, answer the phone, find clients, purchase equipment and supplies, do the research, and hire and fire individuals. There are so many hats that one has to wear when you go it alone that you have to have broad shoulders to wear them all. If you think you will gain more free time, you are mistaken. I would be making more $$ working for Brand X but I kind of like being able to choose my destination and how I get there.

Daniel Ralph, post: 450866, member: 8817 wrote: Kirby,
I suggest that during your evaluation period that you spend some quality time with the people in your current employ who do the billing and banking, prepare the tax forms and insurance applications, answer the phone, find clients, purchase equipment and supplies, do the research, and hire and fire individuals. There are so many hats that one has to wear when you go it alone that you have to have broad shoulders to wear them all. If you think you will gain more free time, you are mistaken. I would be making more $$ working for Brand X but I kind of like being able to choose my destination and how I get there.

Thank you for the insight, there seems to be a lot that can go wrong with self employed. Being in my 20's it seems like the best time for it as I don't have a lot to lose being lucky enough to have a caring family that will push me through. I'm keen as anything wanting to make the most out of my knowledge and work ethic.

I see so many people my age stuck with 9-5 jobs that they hate, they all have the opportunity to change it whether they have to take a pay cut or be the apprentice for a while. I know it can be difficult depending on peoples circumstances but why not strive to be better. I have had the worst of the worst jobs cleaning site toilets but now i'm fully qualified and been working in the field for 5 years. I think its time to make the jump.

kirbyparrish, post: 450858, member: 13098 wrote: ...I am currently employed in the UK as a Site Engineer with a provided van, fuel card and hired EDM.

What's an EDM?
Make sure you have a good understanding of what it takes to run a business even with little overhead. There may be a lot of expenses that you don't necessarily take into consideration. Also be aware that it may pay more per hour, you may or may not get enough work to actually come out ahead. A lot of private companies have to charge 2 to 3 times per hour for one employee to cover the extra costs of just running a business. (2 or 3 times might be wrong, but much more than you expect to "net")

kirbyparrish, post: 450858, member: 13098 wrote: the sense of more freedom is attractive to me

Me too. GO for it.

The most important thing of all to to be sure that you have adequate capitalization and a sound business plan. You can be the best in the world at what you do, but if you don't understand business you may be doomed to fail.

I have an acquaintance who actually told me "I was so busy working I didn't realize I was going bankrupt."

That said, you are young enough to deal with problems, and have time to recover if necessary. Best of luck!

I had my own business for 15 years. I always tell everyone starting out that you only hve to work a half a day. You get to decide which 12 hours which include Saturday and Sunday

kirbyparrish, post: 450870, member: 13098 wrote: Thank you for the insight, there seems to be a lot that can go wrong with self employed. Being in my 20's it seems like the best time for it as I don't have a lot to lose being lucky enough to have a caring family that will push me through. I'm keen as anything wanting to make the most out of my knowledge and work ethic.

I see so many people my age stuck with 9-5 jobs that they hate, they all have the opportunity to change it whether they have to take a pay cut or be the apprentice for a while. I know it can be difficult depending on peoples circumstances but why not strive to be better. I have had the worst of the worst jobs cleaning site toilets but now i'm fully qualified and been working in the field for 5 years. I think its time to make the jump.

Making the most of your work ethic will mean, at least for the first few years, spending a lot more time to get your business established and then keeping it established than your 9 to 5 friends spend at their jobs. As the business owner, you are the first to enjoy the rewards of success, but also the first to suffer the shortfalls when business is slow. If you will have employees when starting out, you may need to be the lowest paid person in the company for several months until cash flow settles out. Likewise, when business is slow during economic recessions, you again may become the lowest paid person in your company until business picks up again. Make sure that you have enough savings beyond the cost of startup (equipment, advertising, fees, etc.) to live on for a few months at the onset, and then that you build up enough savings to live on through an extended recession should one happen.

A supportive family is crucial. If married, you need absolute support from your spouse as your spouse will need to pick up some slack on the domestic front so that you can have the time and energy to get your business going. Without that support, you'll either lose your family or never really get your business off the ground.

How does or would your employer feel about it if he/she/they knew you were planning to essentially become a new competitor in the market? Are they supportive? Would you maintain some manner of working relationship with them that benefits you and them? Would they feel that you are being disloyal and fire you upon finding out you are planning to leave to start your own company? How would you obtain your first clients? Have you researched the market to see if there is a niche that you could serve without directly competing with your current employer? Is your current employer so busy that a new competitor in the area would take some pressure off them? (I should probably put that last one in "sarcasm" font) Do you plan to convince some of your employer's clientele to bring business your way?

If you have a secure job at this time and haven't already done so, I highly suggest that you take the next several months to first determine what all the factors you should give consideration to in making the move are, and then developing a plan and preparing financially and logistically to do it in a manner that will best ensure lasting success.

It's been said that businesses fail for three reasons: wrong people, wrong market, insufficient capital. It sounds like you believe in yourself (which you must) and that you've identified a market where you're proficient (maybe...5 years isn't as much time as it seems in your 20s). So that leaves the last component: How much money do you have? I really think you should have one to two years worth of salary-equivalent saved. This shows two things: a--you know how to hold on to money, b--you are able to deal with slow payers and also don't have to be so desperate that you take on work that you shouldn't.

I think if you don't have a year-plus saved up, you shouldn't do it. It's not fair to your spouse and family to make them carry you. It's one thing if you hit hard times and they have to help you out. That's family. It's quite another if the plan from the outset is that they support you until the magic happens.

But if you've got the money saved--Go for it!

[USER=7285]@Tom Adams[/USER] an EDM is what some call a TS.
When Theodolites incorporated an internal electronic measurement thingo, it was known as an EDM.
[USER=13098]@kirbyparrish[/USER]. Having been through both I'm not sure which I'd prefer. Both have distinct advantages.
No questions asked about things like paid holidays, sick and compassionate leave, public holidays etc. Retirement benefits.
Private business brings with it a range of activities you currently aren't involved in but benefit from. How your pay gets from the client and into your bank is just one very important factor.
Arrangements and payment of all overheads including insurances, statutory requirements of running an organisation etc.
I read here of people going it alone but they're not 'alone' as they're running several parties and unless that's why they setup their business then they're probably not doing what makes them tick, and the surveying they trained into and gets into your physche is now remote and a thing of the past.
Do you want to do the surveying or oversee others?
What happens when you pick up more work than you can handle and think you'll take on a helper?
What happens when wife is sick or young Johnny has some trauma and family versus that promised survey tugs at the emotions and will.

Working for yourself can be extremely rewarding. You can carve out your style and stamp it with your own professional approach.
You're free to yes or no taking on a particular job.
You are the master of your own destiny in as much as the type of work you undertake and pursue.

But it requires discipline, grit and willingness to acknowledge you can't always do everything and satisfy all clients all the time.
Bills need sending out and accounts for all manner of things need paying, yet alone procuring supplies.

I can't speak for your environs as I gather the type of work UK surveying involves is different from us here.
But core principles of running a business or sole operation would have similar characteristics.

Don't be put off by the negatives. But give it some serious thoughtful and inclusive with those near and dear to you, discussion.
All the best.

Richard, post: 450916, member: 833 wrote: [USER=7285]@Tom Adams[/USER] an EDM is what some call a TS.
When Theodolites incorporated an internal electronic measurement thingo, it was known as an EDM.

Richard, I know what an "EDM" (ie: electronic distance measurer" is at least in our US terminology. EDM's first came out as a separate device to put on the tripod (or on an external mount of the theodolite) specifically for measuring electronic distances. When technology developed to where they started adding them internally to the theodolite, they started calling them "total stations". Later Total Stations could do much more.

However from the context of the Original Poster's post, I think he might have meant something else, but I'm not sure. His statement was "I am currently employed in the UK as a Site Engineer with a provided van, fuel card and hired EDM." It sounded like it might have been an abbreviation for something like a permanent employee, or maybe something else. I was trying to figure out what it might mean.

Thanks Tom. I did ponder before replying.
Here, an 'instrument' (theodolite) has always been a 'jigger' and old farts progressing through inverted T1A through EDM still call the current iteration a 'jigger'.
Your 'gun' was foreign to me even TS doesn't fall off the tongue like other terminology. I'll let Kirby answer.

Richard, post: 450923, member: 833 wrote: Thanks Tom. I did ponder before replying.
Here, an 'instrument' (theodolite) has always been a 'jigger' and old farts progressing through inverted T1A through EDM still call the current iteration a 'jigger'.
Your 'gun' was foreign to me even TS doesn't fall off the tongue like other terminology. I'll let Kirby answer.

Yes, "total station" sounds kind of funny to me. I mean it sounds like it could mean almost anything....like a gas station or a television thing that "chops, dices, and slices" all in one.

Daniel Ralph, post: 450866, member: 8817 wrote: I would be making more $$ working for Brand X

I've been self-employed for 24 years now. It took me about 5 years to get my income up to what it would have been working for someone else, but then it kept going up. There was a serious dip after the '08 crash, and a multi-year recovery, but I've had some years since that have more than made up for that.

I wish I could say that I have a magic formula, but I think it's probably more a matter of right time, right place, and an abundance of good luck than any genius on my part. All I can say for sure is that I made the right decision when I made the jump in 1993.

32 years for me, although there were times that it was more like Unemployed than Self-employed (without any benefits). It's been a pretty bumpy road, and a long strange trip, but now that I am trying to wind things down a bit, I have more work than I can do (it figures).

Not for the faint of heart!
Loyal

Richard, post: 450923, member: 833 wrote: Thanks Tom. I did ponder before replying.
Here, an 'instrument' (theodolite) has always been a 'jigger' and old farts progressing through inverted T1A through EDM still call the current iteration a 'jigger'.
Your 'gun' was foreign to me even TS doesn't fall off the tongue like other terminology. I'll let Kirby answer.

[USER=7285]@Tom Adams[/USER]

We just use EDM when we are referring to our Total Station, it may not technically be the correct terminology but it rolls off the tongue better than 'Total Station' :joy:

Just want to say thank you for everyone's input, you lot have definitely made me think twice. I would still love to make the jump but for now maybe a few more years on my belt and then I can really start to think about it.

Maybe running through an agency could be a stepping stone before totally going solo?

kirbyparrish, post: 450993, member: 13098 wrote: Just want to say thank you for everyone's input, you lot have definitely made me think twice. I would still love to make the jump but for now maybe a few more years on my belt and then I can really start to think about it.

Maybe running through an agency could be a stepping stone before totally going solo?

That is normal for most freelancers. Plenty of full time work. Not many reasons to stay as a permanent employee. If you are planning on getting a mortgage then you need to have a think about options that satisfy the lenders. A Ltd company of your own is one option.

The system in the US is quite different with tenders required for nearly all survey and setting out work. Also the distances you might have to travel. Whereas there is no end of full time work here on hourly and daily rates. The agency will handle the contracts and cash flow. Just a weekly timesheet and invoice required. If you go direct to a company then need to think about uncertainty and lateness of payment.

All of the aforementioned advice is great. Like Jim Frame, I have been in business almost 30 years and after the first 4-5 years the business became very profitable. Be prepared to deal with anguish and elation weekly. 😎

FL/GA PLS., post: 451003, member: 379 wrote: Be prepared to deal with anguish and elation weekly.

That's honestly been one of my favorite aspects. I've experienced the "kid at Christmas" feeling almost monthly since opening business.

I'm still very new to this but I've really enjoyed being on my own. Technology allows for true solo operations to be competitive. I may be wrong on this but I believe in the free market that risk and reward are highly correlated. A job with a lot of security isn't likely to translate to a lot of reward.