Actually an email from my website contact form..
How much would you charge to create a sketch of a legal description without performing any field work?
My response was that we would be glad to provide a sketch but would need to do a site visit and the price would $1000. the site is about an hr from me. I am thinking I low-balled it.
Why couldn't you plot the description as written, assuming that can be done, and put a note on the plat stating that this plat does not constitute a boundary survey and no field work was performed in the making of this plat. See it in my state quite often. I would, though, let the client know that a true boundary survey may place the lines in a different location than where the one description places them.
because,
a) The liability of doing that is too high for the return.
b) I am too busy to work for peanuts.
c) deed plots are meaningless without field work.
Have done so a few times, mostly for title company or realtors. Certain descriptions give them a hard time imagining the lot shape. Often it is because of a missing or bad course. It may result in a correction survey.
It helps out both parties, the surveyor in being able to better quote the scope of work and the title company/realtor in understanding why it may not be at the regular price.
I would not put it out with a title block. That would only happen with a deed draft for work under contract.
Paul in PA
On the one hand it seems like a rather simple thing to do for which there should be no liability. It in no way resembles surveying. Anyone could do it. Why not get paid to draw some lines on paper? Or, better yet, do it for free.
On the other hand, some think everything they do is the fine art of surveying. Well, guess what. It ain't.
Of course, the big difference in the two is what the description(s) consist of to start with. In my area it would most likely be a request to draw out what a series of calls describing a metes and bounds (less monuments) tract is supposed to look like. Basically, the request would be to draw an outline of the property which would be virtually identical to what a tax map would depict. If instead this was a Colonial metes and bounds with calls like "to the brow of the hill" and "to a cucumber" then there is simply no way to do what is requested without doing a survey.
What I'm thinking of is a simple of drawing of what the following would create:
COMMENCING AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF SAID NORTHEAST QUARTER; THENCE SOUTH 00 DEGREES 00 MINUTE 00 SECONDS WEST (AN ASSUMED BEARING) 1500.00 FEET ALONG THE EAST SECTION LINE TO THE TRUE POINT OF BEGINNING; THENCE SOUTH 90 DEGREES 00 MINUTES 00 SECONDS WEST, 500.00 FEET; THENCE SOUTH 00 DEGREES 00 MINUTES 00 SECONDS WEST, 100.5 FEET, THENCE NORTH 90 DEGREES 00 MINUTES 00 SECONDS EAST, 500.00 FEET TO THE EAST SECTION LINE; THENCE NORTH 00 DEGREES 00 MINUTES 00 SECONDS EAST, 100.5 FEET ALONG SAID EAST SECTION LINE TO THE POINT OF BEGINNING; CONTAINING 1.15 ACRES, MORE OR LESS.
It would surely involve more sides with a wider variety of bearings but I think you can see what I mean.
I sign and stamp any work that is the result of a land survey. I would not consider sketching out a legal description so that someone can see the shape any more than just that. If there is any doubt, I would put a note that said exactly what it is and that it is not the result of a land survey. It would not be signed or stamped.
Who better to have plot out a metes-and-bounds description than a surveyor who understands these things?
No big deal in my book. (disclaimer for Kent) but I am not in private practice, and maybe I am missing something.:-P
> because,
> a) The liability of doing that is too high for the return.
> b) I am too busy to work for peanuts.
> c) deed plots are meaningless without field work.
I can understand b, but not the others. Why is there liability for plotting a deed? I'd think a deed plot would be much more handy to a property owner than a tax map.
I understand choosing not to do this but I don't see a problem with this. I've done this a few times over the years. Person walks in with a deed and wants a simple plot of the deed calls with lines labeled. Whip it out, print on blank sheet, exchange for cash, person thinks your great. Who loses? Granted these descriptions were simple lots with 4 or 5 lines.
> I sign and stamp any work that is the result of a land survey. I would not consider sketching out a legal description so that someone can see the shape any more than just that. If there is any doubt, I would put a note that said exactly what it is and that it is not the result of a land survey. It would not be signed or stamped.
>
> Who better to have plot out a metes-and-bounds description than a surveyor who understands these things?
>
Agreed. If I, as an expert, refuse to help them, due to some ridiculous misguided notion that I would incur some liability without performing a full boundary survey, just where are they going now? Probably to either the title company or the assessor who will "plot it up" for them and most likely not be able to discuss any discrepancies or just what any part of it actually means.
I'd say $80 for an hour of time to sketch a deed. Label the POB and show any misclosure. Show the error, DBV, the area and the Tax ID#. Title block: Sketch of deed.
What's wrong with sketching a deed for what it costs you to do it? No liability if you can actually sketch a deed properly.
I would really hope for errors in the deed (and most rural deeds have errors 'round here) because that could lead to a survey if it's too bad or unacceptable.
> Actually an email from my website contact form..
> How much would you charge to create a sketch of a legal description without performing any field work?
> My response was that we would be glad to provide a sketch but would need to do a site visit and the price would $1000. the site is about an hr from me. I am thinking I low-balled it.
First I would have to review the legal description to determine if it can be done, no charge for that. If I can do it, it will be at my hourly rate of $XXX.
It either can or can't be done without a site visit. If it needs a site visit, recommend a survey.
Heck, just respond with a link to the local county GIS site and let them print the thing out.
no- because that's why they called in the first place... the GIS shows the line going thru the front porch...:-P
I don't see any problem with plotting up any deed description on file.
Simple thing to do. All they get is the deed calls and maybe a closure note. Nothing put on the ground, no other features represented or located. Simple drafter's task.
I do not try to fix any errors and give only what the deed says. Actually on most smaller parcels it's hardly worth the effort, I just usually end up billing for 1 hours time and am done with it.
If they send me the description as a Word document I can make a handsome profit. I even will recommend a trip to the Greenbriar Graphics website to my realtor friends. That software costs less than me doing this regularly for them and even a realtor can learn to use it.
What type of description is it? If it's an aliquot part of a section, or if it has a lot of exceptions, it may be difficult to plot without a field survey.
My reply to some comments.
First I disagree that there is no liability to a deed plot by a surveyor, in fact, as a responsible professional there is always liability. I manage liability through pricing, insurance etc.
Second, this was for a title company and as most here would know, they can plot a deed with software just as easily as you or I. The question might be why did they ask a surveyor to do it unless there is a problem?
Thirdly, I don't work on a standard hourly rate anymore and if I did, I would have a five hour minimum. Why? Because that would make these type of things worthwhile to me. I prefer to price the work at what I consider a professional service level, meaning I will go at least measure this lot and the neighboring lots before interpreting a deed.I dont need to do a full blown survey, but if I give you a sketch, it is based upon what is on the ground AND how I read the deeds. Giving my professional opinion is not something I do for free and if the job doesn't need that, I gladly send it to others. In this case by pricing myself out of the running.Its a win win.
You may continue to operate in such a very conservative manner until you have no clients to worry about. The nice guys will have been found after a more diligent search and they will be happy to take what could have been your projects.
Drawing a sketch of an existing description is not surveying. Making comments about perceived errors with the existing description might be surveying, but probably not. Suggesting how to fix the perceived errors probably could be considered to be part of the recognized practice of land surveying. Based on the original post, the only item requested is a sketch of an existing description.
Just today I was presented with a situation by a potential client where a sketch of Property A would appear to show no problems. Doing the same for Property B would also appear to show no problems. It starts to enter the practice of land surveying when you slap both properties on a sketch and begin to question the apparent missing 26 feet of real estate between what should (maybe) be a common boundary line and suggest that the only way to solve the mystery is via a new boundary survey to be conducted by you. This scenario is not comparable to the situation posed in the original post.
There is nothing wrong with preparing a deed sketch, as long as the only information you show comes from the description and information in the deed.
Once any other information is added like structures, drives, asbuilts or other objects it is a survey and you are making judgement about the boundary location.
In the title block, state DEED SKETCH and reference the recording information of the deed.
0.02
Rambleon... it appears you had made your decision. Why put it out to the peanut gallery, other than to just stir the pot?
> Rambleon... it appears you had made your decision. Why put it out to the peanut gallery, other than to just stir the pot?
What an odd post. I see nothing wrong with having a (philosophical) discussion about what constitutes a land survey. I saw nothing in that post that "stirs the pot". It seems like referring to every opposing opinion as the "peanut gallery" is more like stirring the pot to me. But I can't see anyone getting in a tizzy over that either.:-)
