I have had the opportunity to work on two small one day brake retarder replacements this year. I took that time to do some measuring for the width of a standard railroad track width. I would like to create a drawing showing the measurements I took.
Does anyone have an accurate drawing of a rail cross section they would be willing to share? I will definitely share the drawing/PDF that I create.
My goal is to create an accurate drawing that I can use as a guide, and for those tracks I cannot get refectorless shots on both rails to keep from having to "enter" the railroad right of way.
Thanks in advance,
Jimmy
I remember using the number 4.72ft as being the measurement between the inside of rails from a measurement I made around 1973 between rails on the east side of Jacksonville, Tx.
Looking at the details on a page from a Charlie Tucker's seminar handout, the distance is 4ft 8 1/2in that would be 4.708ft.
From experience, that distance get bigger the longer the rail is in place until it gets replaced.
Many trains have left their tracks because the wear of the inside of the rails has become too great to support the train.
The lines that I work around are in remote areas where fences are not the originals and monuments are practically non existent.
Before reflectorless, we would mark a lath at 2.36ft and use that as a guide to locate the center of the track thru the curves and straight sections.
In the 70s we would actually setup and run along the centerline of the track and locate the path in the same manner as laying one out by measure and turn an angle to every station.
Thank you!
A Harris, post: 340597, member: 81 wrote: I remember using the number 4.72ft as being the measurement between the inside of rails from a measurement I made around 1973 between rails on the east side of Jacksonville, Tx.
Looking at the details on a page from a Charlie Tucker's seminar handout, the distance is 4ft 8 1/2in that would be 4.708ft.
From experience, that distance get bigger the longer the rail is in place until it gets replaced.
Many trains have left their tracks because the wear of the inside of the rails has become too great to support the train.
The lines that I work around are in remote areas where fences are not the originals and monuments are practically non existent.
Before reflectorless, we would mark a lath at 2.36ft and use that as a guide to locate the center of the track thru the curves and straight sections.
In the 70s we would actually setup and run along the centerline of the track and locate the path in the same manner as laying one out by measure and turn an angle to every station.
Our old 200' add a foot highway steel tape had a 1/2 width r/r gauge marked on the chain from the factory, so the chainman could hold on inside of rail when using the cl of the tracks to measure from. 2.36' sounds familiar.
I only did a little bit of r/r layout and always had the same questions, what was the dimension of the tracks, what was the height of the track and tie so I could get to subgrade. It always seemed there was a million details in the plan set but a few key dimensions were always missing. I guess it was a good way to keep us part timers from getting in on the specialty of r/r work. My 2 cents, Jp
On our Port Authority Trans Hudson lines its 4' 8 1/2" on tangents and 4' 8 3/4" on curves to account for the wheel assemblies.
But we have tight curves, relatively speaking.
If you are asking about the dimensions of a single rail, they can be found at the above website. There seems to be many different sized rails. It would be convenient to shoot the outside of the rail and calculate to centerline but how could you know which type rail you were shooting?
Any problem with me sharing those diagrams with my model railroader buddies?
We have a new guy on board asking questions about hand laying track and turnouts in particular. He (as well as others) may find these interesting.
E
If you hold zero on one rail and any number on the other, the midpoint is pretty easy to find. Through curves it's pretty hard to get too far from radial.
When locating with a pogo I used to carry a wood block that centered the rod and held it in place. I occasionally got lazy enough to tape it on the pole....
The rail size is printed on the web of the rail.
Jimmy,
You may find your answer here UP Construction Details or not. Anyway, it is a wealth of information for surveyors.
Dan
From the ultimate authority, the email I got from my cousin:
" ......did you know that the US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8 1/2 inches?
That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used?
Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates.
(Lots of bulk in here)
So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was originally determined by the width of a horse's a**."
Knowing how bureaucracies work, they could have taken out "the width of".
Actually, the US had at one time different gauges, of course creating more trans-loading. It came to the forefront during the Civil War when the Confederacy had less standardization than the north, I suspect for private business reasons.
We adopted the English gauge since we initially got railroad parts from England, although we soon sold them stuff too; and it just made more sense to be standardized.
So - why 4', 8 1/2"? I dunno. Why does my XKE fuel pump have a hundred parts to it? Why is Lucas the Prince of Darkness?
Canadian National operates throughout North America, and their specifications include both American and Canadian dimensions.
Track Specifications | Guidelines & Regulations | Customer Centre | cn.ca
wfwenzel, post: 340643, member: 7180 wrote: From the ultimate authority, the email I got from my cousin:
" ......did you know that the US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8 1/2 inches?
That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used?
Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates.
(Lots of bulk in here)
So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was originally determined by the width of a horse's a**."Knowing how bureaucracies work, they could have taken out "the width of".
Actually, the US had at one time different gauges, of course creating more trans-loading. It came to the forefront during the Civil War when the Confederacy had less standardization than the north, I suspect for private business reasons.
We adopted the English gauge since we initially got railroad parts from England, although we soon sold them stuff too; and it just made more sense to be standardized.
So - why 4', 8 1/2"? I dunno. Why does my XKE fuel pump have a hundred parts to it? Why is Lucas the Prince of Darkness?
The story of the space shuttle
How the Romans Built the Space Shuttle
by admin on March 9, 2012
Sometimes you come across some facts that are hard to believe and yet are true. For example, the fact that the design for an Imperial Roman war chariot influenced the building of the Space Shuttle. Sounds ridiculous. And yet itÛªs true. Read on and find out for yourself.
Train of thought
The U.S. standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. ThatÛªs an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because thatÛªs the way they built them in England, and English expatriates designed the U.S. railroads.
Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and thatÛªs the gauge they used.
Why did Û÷theyÛª use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they had used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.
Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England, because thatÛªs the spacing of the wheel ruts.
Roman chariot
So, who built those old rutted roads? Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (including England) for their legions. Those roads have been used ever since. And the ruts in the roads? Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels.
Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore, the United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot. In other words, bureaucracies live forever.
So the next time you are handed a specification, procedure, or process, and wonder, Û÷What horseÛªs ass came up with this?Ûª, you may be exactly right. Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the rear ends of two war horses.
Now, the twist to the story:
When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, you will notice that there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah.
The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to make them a bit larger, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a tunnel in the mountains, and the SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horsesÛª behinds.
So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the worldÛªs most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horseÛªs ass.
And you thought being a horseÛªs ass wasnÛªt important! Now you know, HorsesÛª Asses control almost everythingÛ?
Explains a whole lot of stuff, doesnÛªt it?
We in Ontario use 2.35' from inside of running edge of rail to centre line of a straight tangent section of track at a visible distance from any point of curve as the rails are spiraled at curves.
Then, with some exceptions, the railway boundary is a straight tangent or a simple curve unless (from a court case) the long standing occupation (fences etc.) is greater than the deed.
Cheers,
Derek
The size of the rail itself is measured in pounds per foot.
The width between wheels of the trains remains the same. and there is much design details that goes into the layout of the curves, switches and change overs of location, superelevations and drainage.
I don't know if Charlie Tucker is still giving seminars or not.........
I highly recommend that everyone finds a seat when he gives one because he brings alot of info on the world of RRs.
Go for it........I got the info from a seminar and they were shared to be shared because the RR companies want surveyors to know this stuff so they can properly use it to locate their land.
Jimmy,
send me an email to dryoung at tva.gov and I send you a Norfolk Southern Design Manual
On all my steel tapes ( In todays world we call them a chain ) have a mark at 2.35 feet for half of the RR gage.
Jp7191, post: 340651, member: 1617 wrote: The story of the space shuttle
How the Romans Built the Space Shuttle
by admin on March 9, 2012Sometimes you come across some facts that are hard to believe and yet are true. For example, the fact that the design for an Imperial Roman war chariot influenced the building of the Space Shuttle. Sounds ridiculous. And yet itÛªs true. Read on and find out for yourself.
Train of thought
The U.S. standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. ThatÛªs an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because thatÛªs the way they built them in England, and English expatriates designed the U.S. railroads.
Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and thatÛªs the gauge they used.
Why did Û÷theyÛª use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they had used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.
Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England, because thatÛªs the spacing of the wheel ruts.
Roman chariot
So, who built those old rutted roads? Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (including England) for their legions. Those roads have been used ever since. And the ruts in the roads? Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels.
Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore, the United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot. In other words, bureaucracies live forever.
So the next time you are handed a specification, procedure, or process, and wonder, Û÷What horseÛªs ass came up with this?Ûª, you may be exactly right. Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the rear ends of two war horses.
Now, the twist to the story:
When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, you will notice that there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah.
The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to make them a bit larger, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a tunnel in the mountains, and the SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horsesÛª behinds.
So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the worldÛªs most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horseÛªs ass.
And you thought being a horseÛªs ass wasnÛªt important! Now you know, HorsesÛª Asses control almost everythingÛ?
Explains a whole lot of stuff, doesnÛªt it?
Not according to NASA...
https://standards.nasa.gov/documents/RomanChariots.pdf
Another urban legend bites the dust, although the part about "fitting through the tunnels" is certainly true.
