Question for MA surveyors

1. Is is registered land? Land court vs. Recorded land. More later when on puter.

> 1. Is is registered land? Land court vs. Recorded land. More later when on puter.

I would expect it is registered though do not know for sure. The property is just off Rt. 20. My brothers friend was led to believe one of the monuments on Rt 20 is the one that's out.

A bit more Info

Here's a portion of the surveyor's depiction. A bit of a "mess". My brothers friend had, I believe, a valid question when he asked me "why wasn't this issue found before?" Other lots in the neighborhood had been surveyed for sale within the past 5 or so years. The lot labeled Locus 3 (#11) is the subject lot

A bit of a mess

Mass = Mess

1. We have Mortgage Inspection Surveys that are AWFUL. There are firms who specialize in these drive-by pull a tape wastes of time, paper and a stamp. I have performed 3 Mortgage Inspection Surveys all of which have been worth several times more than the pittance provided.

2. The solution does not have to be recorded. Monuments found and set do not have to be recorded. There's a surveyor out there who probably knows the answer. Find them and ask for some professional courtesy. Get a relative with a messy situation down in my neck of the woods and I will extend the courtesy.

3. The registry is county wide. But it does not have records from before some recent date. Middlesex South

4. The Land Court had a regime for many years that held the math over the monuments almost always. This practice carried over into standard practice. Hey, when a Judge decrees a plan, does it not carry more weight? Well now that practice is slumping over to a more appropriate method of holding monuments.

The address would be handy. Or a deed reference. Or something else.

A bit of a mess

sorry to repeat things from your first post.

and that does not look land courted. if you have a deed it's not registered. also, the LC does not typically show areas on their plans.

awesome mess and good luck.

Middlesex County has plans online back to 1929 or so, but they are only indexed back to 1964 and you need to know the plan/year number (copies of plans were filed both in the deed books and separately in a plan room). I was able to narrow the map you showed down to Applecrest Road - the deed only lists the deed book/page number but I have a cross-index for the plan/year numbers. To get the plan you need to go to "unindexed property search" under "plans" on their website, and then type in the year (1950) and plan number (927) under the "book" and "page" fields, respectively. There is also a street layout plan for that road, Plan # 685 of 1952, which shows concrete bounds set on the east side of the road. For those who occasionally work in Middlesex, they also have a DVD set you can borrow or buy which has even older plans, county layouts, and some of the grantor indices.

In Mass there aren't many public records of boundary retracements, unless a new plan is filed to move a line or subdivide a property. The town may have certified plot plans from work done on the street, but the level of detail shown on these varies quite a bit. I didn't see any land court parcels nearby- sometimes this can be an indication of known problems in the neighborhood, as owners register their land to certify what they own.

Did he mention how the concrete bounds on Applecrest check among themselves? They stone bound on Boston Post Road is on a separate state highway layout so it might not match perfectly with the subdivision, but I wouldn't expect it to be too far out. As far as the iron pipes, I wouldn't normally put any weight on these- there is usually no record of them being set, and you don't know whether they were put there by a surveyor or a layman. At best, they may be evidence of occupation. The concrete bounds are of record, and I would hesitate to call one of those 9' off without a good reason.

> I was able to find the deed which references a plat made in 1950. According to the MA land records site, plats only go back to 1964. Is there a way to access older plats online? (I'm in MD attempting to help out a bit)

The Middlesex South Registry has plans indexed back to about 1952 or so, and unindexed plans back into the 1920s are available under "Search criteria - Plans - Unindexed property search". Enter the year (1950) in the "Book" field and the plan number (if you know it) in the page number field. If you don't know the plan number, it gets tedious - leave the page number field blank, and press "search" - this will list all the plans recorded in 1950. Select one, then "view images" to see the plan - read the registry stamp (if there is one) to see the book and page, and compare with the book and page you are looking for, keep going until you find it.

We have a 400+ lot LC subdivision in Town with some problems exacerbated by the realtor who set iron pipes at every corner that did not have a bound. These pipes are excellent in quality and location.

No mention of how the Apple Crest (seen spelled as one and as two words) monuments check among themselves as compared to checking into the state highway bound (other than the hand written note behind lots 3, 5 and 7)

One of my thoughts was perhaps the highway bound was hit by a snow plow or something.

Notes of error of 5.5' to over 9' (noted on 3, 4 and 5) seems like a significant enough error that should have been noted elsewhere (unless as other folks here have noted, the other house locations were nothing more than drive-bys).

Now off to use the above suggestions to see if I can find the plat. And just wanted to say, good detective work to those who figured out exactly what road the sheet shows (I didn't think I showed enough to give that 😉 )

Thank you for the references, got the plans.

So, with looking at the plans (thanks again for pointing me in the right direction), I just sent an email to Mike (my brothers friend) suggesting that other surveyors in the neighborhood might be willing to share an opinion on their solution which may well not be recorded.

What would be the chances (in a case such as this) that a surveyor might use the found lot pins and basically "ignore" the road monumentation? Kind of "it is what it is, the houses have been there for 50 years" type thing.....

To throw another monkey wrench into the works, Mike says the new buyers wish to demolish the old house and build a new one. I'm thinking that a "proper" survey would be required by the state to accomplish that task.

It's Weston for godsakes. Ask your brother's friend what he is selling the house for and then tell him to hire a land surveyor.

Good points. My brother's friend lives in CA and doesn't see moving back to Weston.... but hiring a surveyor will likely be what's left (though I think it was a surveyor who came up with the discrepancies shown above :-X )

I remember looking for a benchmark once at that location that used the stone bound as a tie. The benchmark had been obliterated by traffic driving on the shoulder to bypass cars turning left onto Plain Rd; I think the bound was supposed to be set a bit further back but not hard to imagine it getting hit by something.

If the other street bounds are undisturbed and check reasonably well, then that's where the town street layout is. It's possible that they laid the street out in the wrong place relative to the subdivision boundaries, but I think I would need more evidence than just two pipes on a single lot line before deciding this. The only monuments actually shown on the subdivision plan are the highway bound and existing state highway layout, another bound at the opposite corner, and a stone wall on the east side so that's what I would look for.

If the street and subdivision monuments check well with their respective plans but don't line up with each other, then I would treat them as completely separate entities. The street layout would then cut off small pieces of some lots, while in other places there would be gores that are within the private right-of-way for the rest of the subdivision but not part of the public street.

:good:

Close to a million bucks I'm guessing? What's another few grand for a survey?

-V

John, I may have some useful info on this for you. Give me a call anytime if you like.

508 393 9727

-Varouj

Everyday

These are the issues I work with on a regular basis. Good luck and may your decisions be solid.

You know what I see when I look at the sketch plan? No original monuments are shown on this sketch. I an hoping that the surveyor tied into some original bonds instead of trying to shoehorn in a lot of unknown monuments.

Has the surveyor tied into the original boundary, yet?