Pricing and Ethics

Value in our society is not a fixed point on a monetary scale. A lot of things are evaluated by how much one can profit from possessing them.

With one LOMA I was able to reduce a client's flood insurance premiums from about $4000 a year to around $1200 annually. Even if I had charged 6K for the work it would have paid for itself in about 2 years. A $2800 a year reduction in insurance costs over the 30 year period of a mortgage makes the 6K cost a good business move whether it seems ethical or not.

Of course it doesn't cost near that much generally to perform the work. And I've never charged that much. But if the fees were discussed prior to the work and agreed upon by the client, I don't see anything wrong with it. It appears as though there are surveyors that are aware of the "value" of their work and are probably actually saving the client a good amount of money over the long run.

Sadly when a surveyor finds a good way to make money all the rest of us bring up the word "ethical". It just seems like more proof that most of us are more tied to our science than business.

ps - tell everybody in the area I'll do them for $5800....;)

Again, I can compare this to web design. There are competitors in my area that charge $5,000 for half the website I will build for $2,500. Could I charge more? Yeah, I probably could and probably should charge at least a little more, but my ethical standards won't allow me to continue guilt-free by over-inflating my prices. I realize they might have more overhead (employees, lease payments, etc.) but holy crap! I just don't see how they can justify it and feel good about themselves.

Frank Willis, post: 427696, member: 472 wrote: Someone called me today and needed a flood plain certificate for her home. She is outside our work area, so I told her we would have to add travel time in the amount of $200 plus the cost of the flood plain certificate. She said my price was still way cheaper than the one she got from the local surveyor, which was $6,600. I looked at the location of her house on my software, and there is a benchmark about 3,100 feet away, and of course we could do static GPS.

The person did not realize that $6,600 was way out of line--in fact had no idea. This is probably the third or fourth time this year I have seen this. Obviously, some will say, charge what you get, but gosh is it fair to do that? Sorta reminds me of some medical procedures that might cost $5000 in one place and $300 in another, with patient totally out of the know on what is what.

Is this tied to ethics? Should it be? That person would probably have to work full time for 2 months to pay for a half day of surveying. I don't know what to think.

Ok, shoot me down...

It seems to me that fixed price surveying inevitably leads to the sort of abuse you describe. Members of the public typically don't know enough about the nature of any surveying service to make an informed judgment about the bid that a practitioner has made to provide the service and are relying in good faith upon the practitioner not taking advantage of their ignorance.

well said kent.

Maybe the surveyor is anticipating a big problem? A wild FEMA review process?

Today a client wanted a survey to take several tracts of land they own that were last surveyed in the 1950s to combine and make a new boundary from lake frontage to a road to sell in a title survey.
Boundaries on paper are easy enough to understand being an old highway r/w, center line of a creek and a contour line and a new boundary.
To actually measure and mark as such, more than an average day.
I gave an "at least" number and immediately she was nice about saying that was more than others had quoted.
Gave her an honest answer that the number I gave her was not necessarily my lowest number because I would charge on a fee basis and that if she wanted a firm number now, I will furnish it.
She ask me to come and look at the property if it would lead to a lower number.
Her property is 45min away and I was honest with her and said that visiting the property would not change things.
In reality, most of the homes along this street are $500k plus and there is not going to be a lower number from me.

Frank Willis, post: 427696, member: 472 wrote: Someone called me today and needed a flood plain certificate for her home. She is outside our work area, so I told her we would have to add travel time in the amount of $200 plus the cost of the flood plain certificate. She said my price was still way cheaper than the one she got from the local surveyor, which was $6,600. I looked at the location of her house on my software, and there is a benchmark about 3,100 feet away, and of course we could do static GPS.

The person did not realize that $6,600 was way out of line--in fact had no idea. This is probably the third or fourth time this year I have seen this. Obviously, some will say, charge what you get, but gosh is it fair to do that? Sorta reminds me of some medical procedures that might cost $5000 in one place and $300 in another, with patient totally out of the know on what is what.

Is this tied to ethics? Should it be? That person would probably have to work full time for 2 months to pay for a half day of surveying. I don't know what to think.

Ok, shoot me down...
🙂

Well, I hope she was not an elderly person because that might be criminal.

I never spent more that a few hours on a FEMA cert. in the field and about 1 1/2 hours office time, pre and post survey.

Longest travel has been about an 2 hour round trip.

Sounds like a lot of money left on the table 😉

Wow that's 40 hrs at my engineering rate. That better be one complicated EC for that price.

$6,600 for an elevation cert???? I must be missing something. Is the Client also wanting to go through the CLOMR/LOMR process to change the flood zone boundaries because of work they've done?

Thr other guy is adding engineering costs to get out of the plain. We have a lot of those calls lately too.

$6000 is not unusual in ZoneA

simple Zone A2 with BFE determined by FEMA and BM is 3100 feet away and in flat terrain. Flood plain certificated needed only. No LOMR or LOMA.

I never heard of Highballing.

I suppose some operate on the premise that they can only catch some suckers if they toss out a baited hook. They smell a lot like their bait. Simultaneously, they give the rest of us a bad image with the public.

This is why god invented a phone book and google. If someone thinks a price is too high they are free to call around and they will. Even the dumbest of people know this. These things are self correcting. If you are simply too busy and quote a price 10x higher than normal this is self correcting too as word spreads and your reputation may suffer. If you feel guilty making a profit, then business may not be your thing.

Frank Willis, post: 427736, member: 472 wrote: simple Zone A2 with BFE determined by FEMA and BM is 3100 feet away and in flat terrain. Flood plain certificated needed only. No LOMR or LOMA.

Then, I would be rich working there

So if someone charges less than someone else, they're lowballing. And if someone makes some good profit they're unethical? So maybe surveyors should get together and "set" what they think the price should be....

Oh wait, that's illegal...

I have a great idea. I'll just come up with a standard fixed price for everything and announce to the world that this is the correct fee to pay any surveyor willing to do the job. Then that's the only price people would agree to pay. No collusion involved.