> The temptation is not worth whatever you get from the task.
>
> You could find yourself banned from ever obtaining a Surveying License.
>
> Just say no, if the person can not understand, so be it.
Hmm, the few practicing without a license cases I've read about of this nature usually involved a cease and desist, fine, and Board investigation costs, never a ban to sit for the exam. Of course, disclosure of the "conviction" (even misdemeanors) is required on the License Application, that could be a problem. OTOH, I know a few LS's who had some pretty serious convictions on their rap sheets who were able to sit for the exam, usually because of the passage of time, guilty plea, restitution and good conduct.
Now, if someone is advertising surveying services, using a deceased Registrant's seal, setting pipes, or a fake seal, et al., then the punishment might justifiably involve a ban of some sort. Even in such cases a lifetime ban seems unlikely; in my State, two year bans are in the Statutes. One case I was personally involved in the unlicensed party using a deceased employee's seal and forged signature (none on a recorded document, mostly ALTAs) resulted in cease and desist, big fine, costs, and ban on advertising surveying services until an LS joined the company. But a lifetime ban on *obtaining* a license for the guilty party, never heard of it.
Now, an LS "convicted" of an egregious breach(s) of licensure could be forced to retire his/her license, I've read of that. The only case I've been involved in concerned an LS moving monuments, not recording surveys, incredibly bad surveying, subdividing land without recordation, etc., for years. When finally cornered he was more or less forced to surrender his license. Of course it varies from State to State.
> If you have to break out the gun and use cogo then it's surveying.
That's a BS statement if I've ever seen one. The survey licensure laws do not have jurisdiction over the use of trigonometry.
Residential boundaries can be some of the most contentious due to the emotional attachments and conflicts involved.
You think you are just staking some line or marking a lot corner but really the client already has a dispute going with the neighbor which you are about to step in the middle of or maybe the client is okay but the neighbor secretly harbors great resentment. People love to prosecute their little wars on the cheap too dragging you along for the ride.
Approach these things with great caution.
I just turned a small survey down. It has a minor subdivision plat which is questionable and the neighbor has a recent quiet title judgment against the previous owner. I told him it is best to call the surveyor involved in the Q/T because he already should know what's going on plus he is local to the county.
To Robert Hill,
I posted the original question because I value and respect the opinion of licensed surveyors, and I am working towards becoming one. Also, I then thanked everyone for their opinions and decided to heed their advice by turning down the work.
Never once did I imply my work was BETTER than the licensed surveyor who proposed the original bid. Never once did I say the $150/hr was ridiculous. In no way am I lurking in the shadows, or talking in circles, or for one second refuting ANY of the opinions which were given to me.
I hope your general attitude and inattention to detail doesn't carry over into your professional work as well. Happy Easter!
To Brosef,
I think that there was a communication failure here. I read your following comment:
The work was actually for a friend OF A friend anyway, and I wasn't too worried about it. He was quoted $150/hr by a local surveyor, and thought it was outrageous. He's got a 50 acre lot, with a lot of tree cover. So if this surveyor is as slow and lazy as the guys I have met we're talking an easy 8 hours of just field work, not to mention deed research and such. It IS a shame that somebody can't go out there and help
I think I read it correctly and did not say that you were upset with the price quote etc.I consider the bold type as an off handed comment from a novice. Yes, maybe a young moonlighter can get the field work done in less than half the time but the PLS being a professional must document and back-up all of his work and pay attention to details, He realizes where the liability falls where the moonlighter has none. You did render a judgement on surveyors.
I did not infer that you were a lowballer but your friend of a friend is seeking one.
99/100 times when someone is approached to perform work outside of their normal work setting, the client is looking to cut his cost. There is no other reason. He is trying to find someone to work a weekend day to get his line staked for a big saving in his pocket.
Good for you for declining the offer. You should refer him to your employer and try to make an arrangement as other have proffered here.
Good luck to you and a Happy Easter Also.
Do the work and run an off-set line or some other check so you are sure of your work. A fencing company will do the same thing you are doing. The worst you will have to do is move the fence and pay for any damage you do.
You are flat wrong and you are licensed in KY, no?
KRS 322.010 (10)(a) 1.h says that land surveying includes but is not limited to:
> Measuring and locating, establishing, or reestablishing lines, angles,
> elevations, natural and man-made features in the air, on the surface
> and immediate subsurface of the earth, within underground
> workings, and on the beds or surfaces of bodies of water involving
> the:
> Creation and perpetuation of alignments related to maps,
> record plats, field note records, reports, property descriptions,
> and plans and drawings that represent them;
Setting points on a line between two already established corner monuments is surveying.
I've done something this simple before and invoiced my client. It said "survey" somewhere on the invoice. The client knew for a fact I was "surveying". Am I guilty of fraud for charging for surveying, when according to you, this isn't surveying.
It is true fence contractors run lines between corners. Some of them are very good at. As for 'the worst that will happen' I have to disagree.
Most States have an entire section of Code on fencing. In the end if you stake the line wrong (or someone can make it look like you did) you will get an expensive lesson in why we carry e & o insurance...
You are just staking a line. Do it and don't sweat it.
Don't survey for friends. Just don't do it. Even if you're not really surveying. Same with dating coworkers. Just don't do it. Remember what paves the road to hell.
Some of the best liability insurance is being unique and use and leave personal attributes on projects that could not have come from anywhere except your work and to document everything with pictures, raw data and a sketch on paper showing their location at the time of your survey.
I often survey next to where I have set or located monuments and after some fence has been placed the monument has been moved by post hole digging or trench digger and just stabbed back in place.
:good: :good: :good:
Get your RPLS to proof it.
How many of you, and how many times have you been asked to "just set a couple of stakes so I can see where my line is. I'm not building anything." Only to have that innocuous request morph into the basis for a building project, sometimes with horrifying results.
It's happened to me several times. Never my issue, usually ignorance of setback requirements. Still puts you on pins and needles.
Doesn't any more. Nothing is treated as "just".
This thread just reminded me of something that happened several years ago.
My aunt and uncle owned some acreage a couple hundred miles away and planned on subdividing it. They were given a quote by the local surveyors, the amount of which my aunt thought was outrageous.
RRRRRRRING goes the phone.
Aunt thinks nephew will do it for free.
Nephew tells aunt that he cannot do so because it is illegal due to the fact that nephew is not licensed. Nephew also tells aunt that the quote given was not at all out of line.
End of conversation.
I'm working on 40 acres next to another 20 acre property. Adjoining land owner takes me around and shows me some iron pins (with caps on them). Oh, this is wonderful. I can use these points.
He then starts showing me the line. Flagging here then some more and along we go.
I start mentioning this flag line. He says, "A few years ago, me and thi kids came out. I had an old transit and we turned the line and started flagging it."
Damn. The lines are not good enough for me. I'll locate the pins but the lines are for crap.
Was he surveying without a license? He hung flags up on his own ground. He had a transit and some flagging and went to work on it. I'm a little ticked that I followed this flagging for several hundred feet before he said he put it there. I know what he did was wrong but he thought he did good.
I'll take my time locating these caps. Not sure what to think of this whole pile of BS. He's a real nice guy. I can't turn him in to the BOR. He wasn't surveying (even though he was).
What can you do?
> Was he surveying without a license? He hung flags up on his own ground.
Anyone can "survey" their own property, but they have a fool for a client.
I have no idea what you're mouthing about, but there is nothing in the Kentucky code that says if you are using coordinate geometry you are practicing land surveying. Likewise, there is nothing in there that says if you are using a total station you are practicing land surveying. If use of those two items are the only reason we're licensed, they'd just as well do away with it.
> I have no idea what you're mouthing about, but there is nothing in the Kentucky code that says if you are using coordinate geometry you are practicing land surveying. Likewise, there is nothing in there that says if you are using a total station you are practicing land surveying. If use of those two items are the only reason we're licensed, they'd just as well do away with it.
LOL. Correct.
Breaking out a gun and using COGO suggests button pushing to me, not a definition of land surveying. I will speak for Brian, but I think he was being tongue in cheek in his response.
The art of surveying encompasses not only the physical tools we use, but also more importantly (IMO) the intellectual, philosophical and historical tools that we must employ. We have a surplus of measuring experts out there. What we are in desperate need of are surveying intellectuals.
