So Cowboy
Where is your wisdom on this case of unknown circumstances and no communication with the only person who knows?
I always assume that the deep digging took place and extensive research has taking place, but I can't speak for others. Many of us have those surveys filed away in the back of our minds that seem to come forward with situations like this. I know where a surveyor incorrectly set a corner in the 1960's about 15' off. Then right-of-way fences were built based upon this erroneous corner. Now these fences are 50 years old and look like they have been there even longer. One would assume that the errouneous corner has to be corrct since the fences and road give it credence.
I can think of several locations in my own county where some of the reference ties are actually closer to the geographical positions of the improvements while the corner monument is off to the side of the road.
> I always assume that the deep digging took place and extensive research has taking place, but I can't speak for others.
Good point. I guess I was thinking otherwise. I know a lot of guys who find metal and say "found it", and that ends the digging.
> Many of us have those surveys filed away in the back of our minds that seem to come forward with situations like this. I know where a surveyor incorrectly set a corner in the 1960's about 15' off. Then right-of-way fences were built based upon this erroneous corner. Now these fences are 50 years old and look like they have been there even longer. One would assume that the errouneous corner has to be corrct since the fences and road give it credence.
>
> I can think of several locations in my own county where some of the reference ties are actually closer to the geographical positions of the improvements while the corner monument is off to the side of the road.
I think that the "corner record" or whatever they document it on (survey plat?), should state more about what they did: If they dug...etc. Too many records are vague, and I am suspicious that they didn't do any more than what they said. If I see a narrative of what they did and why they accepted or set a monument, I have a higher level of confidence in their decision.
In my area, the original found rebar would be as good as gold. I can't imagine not using it. The distances for a half mile that is suppose to be 2640 feet in my area vary anywhere from 2630 to 2680 feet, so trying to use measurments to reset a missing corner is a shot in the dark at best. Things may be a little closer for measurements in Oklahoma, so maybe the guy just thought measurements should rule, not that I agree. I'm sure Jeff Lucas would scream at the top of his lungs, IF ALL ELSE FAILS, USE THE OCCUPATION STUPID, and I'd have to agree.
If when checked that occupation is in agreement with what surrounds it. In other words, go in each cardinal direction to get supporting evidence, if reasonable use it and include your findings on the corner recovery card. If not, look further before proportioning. A few years ago we had a retired Forrest Service Surveyor going around and locating evidence of what he thought were GLO corners and upgrading them without checking them with the surrounding GLO evidence. Dangerous to use his work without checking, he was not infallible like he thought he was.
jud
Without knowing the details, I wonder if this could be a standard corner/closing corner situation?
> In my area, the original found rebar would be as good as gold. I can't imagine not using it. The distances for a half mile that is suppose to be 2640 feet in my area vary anywhere from 2630 to 2680 feet, so trying to use measurments to reset a missing corner is a shot in the dark at best. Things may be a little closer for measurements in Oklahoma, so maybe the guy just thought measurements should rule, not that I agree. I'm sure Jeff Lucas would scream at the top of his lungs, IF ALL ELSE FAILS, USE THE OCCUPATION STUPID, and I'd have to agree.
If 2630 is your lower limit, then it sounds like this rebar would be outside your acceptable range. (I am guessing you meant 2600, though.) Also, I highly doubt that the found rebar is 'original'. I have never seen rebar called for in original notes. This rebar sounds like it has no identifying marks, and they found no record of it being set or how it was set. (I am not arguing with accepting it, but I think a lot more evidence needs to be uncovered).
How Can He Ignore The Corner To The North ?
It is also possible that the corner 1 mile North can be recovered without being lost. Are there quarter corners to the East and West, since that would be on a Township Line? Most likely yes, plus there may be recoverable ties to that corner.
Paul in PA
How Can He Ignore The Corner To The North ?
> It is also possible that the corner 1 mile North can be recovered without being lost. Are there quarter corners to the East and West, since that would be on a Township Line? Most likely yes, plus there may be recoverable ties to that corner.
>
> Paul in PA
I agree. And you are going to proportion it in N/S, so you don't know if the rebar fits better than the monument he set. If he determined it to be "lost" he needs to go further to reestablish it in my opinion.
> Without knowing the details, I wonder if this could be a standard corner/closing corner situation?
Paden indicated that this corner is a mile south of the township line, so probably not.
So Keith
As you well know, being licensed in three colonial states, I am not well-versed in the PLSS system. I didn't practice in that system for numerous years, and I don't hold myself out to be an expert on the Manual of Surveying Instructions.
However, I am smart enough to realize that the answer
> "How do you think we would know?"
has absolutely no value whatsoever.
Several people who ARE well-versed in PLSS tried to help.....too bad you didn't.
So cowboy
Do you think any of the answers had any good solutions?
I could ramble on about a lot of PLSS stuff and none of it would have helped in any solution to the described problem.
If you want me to advise in a positive way, I could!
Talk to the darn surveyor who did what was described.
He is the only guy in the world that knows what he did!
OK?
So Keith
One of the reasons people come here is to get information, to pick other surveyors brains, to see what others may have done in similar situations. Luckily, that's the spirit most replies to the original post took.
In addition, what part of
> There are some circumstances that will keep me from speaking to him, at least at the present time...
did you not understand?
Paden's question,
> Can anybody come up with a good scenario that would give creedence to his method?
was an attempt to solve the problem....unlike your answer.
Gee, even my sarcastic answer had more value than yours!
So cowboy
I hope you are happy then!
If you can't talk to the surveyor who is causing the problem, then walk away and forget the problem, as you are not going to resolve it by asking a board for answers to a problem that is not explained!
Good grief, cowboy!
How Can He Ignore The Corner To The North ?
Maybe check the County Road Commission files / plans?
write a letter
have another surveyor contact him
Why you Can Ignore The Corner To The North ?
I first took the term "standard corner" as just being a regular corner, but if in fact he is talking about a Standard cor. that is of course on a Standard Line, then it is single proportioned east and west.
The facts on this are so muddy and the surveyor that did the work is not available, so the entire discussion is worthless.
In my opinion of course.
And cowboy, Standards are run with a purpose.
Why you Can Ignore The Corner To The North ?
Keith:
To me, a "standard corner" refers to a corner on the Standard Parallel (S.C.). When someone refers to a corner that is not on the Standard Parallel as a standard corner, this becomes a confusing call.
Not A Standard Corner, Get With The Facts Boys
As he goes on to quote in the first post:
"The next Filed Corner to the north of this location is two miles north, 1 mile north of a township line."
So the Standard Corner is 1 mile North of the set corner. He has not found it, yet it controls the corner he erroneously set. A corner does not need a corner record in order to be found, there should be sufficient evidence in the original record.
Paul in PA
Why you Can Ignore The Corner To The North ?
> I first took the term "standard corner" as just being a regular corner, but if in fact he is talking about a Standard cor. that is of course on a Standard Line, then it is single proportioned east and west.
I thought the same thing....but then realized he was talking about a STANDARD CORNER, this, to me, would be the reason the corner to the north wasn't involved....
My question would be, would the location of the east west line of the south line of the Township to the north, govern the location of the terminius of the north/south line of the section line in question?
> The facts on this are so muddy and the surveyor that did the work is not available, so the entire discussion is worthless.
Yeah, just like it always is....;-)
> In my opinion of course.
>
> And cowboy, Standards are run with a purpose.............
(on a curve.....:snarky: )
