I'm surveying a small lot, 69' x 87' in a 1995 subdivision. I have 5 plat monuments that agree with each other, less than a tenth. I find 3 of the 4 corners:
- NE corner found 1/2" rebar with number of surveyor of the plat on a plastic cap, is 0.3' south and 0.8' west of calculated
- NW corner found 1/2" rebar with number of surveyor of the plat on a plastic cap, is 0.4' south and 0.3' east of calculated
- SW corner found 1/2" rebar, no cap, 0.2' south and 0.6' west of calculated
The NE and NW look original and undisturbed, the SW is missing it's cap but is straight. The NE was driven into the asphalt parking lot for the apartments to the north. The SE is in a BIG Arborvitae hedge, there is what appears to be a sewer clean-out case, but it's hard to get to without cutting into the hedge.?ÿ
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Would you hold the found corners? Where would you set the SE corner?
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I know what I would do, but I might be wrong; counting on the good people of this board, to show me the error of my ways.
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TIA
Dougie
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we'll duh.
Obviously you place new pins with the your shiny cap at the exact point location that you used to calculate. To the 0.001'
Gosh!
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you have 4 monuments to set at each calculated point,,,,,,,, ?????ÿ
Well, you see, youse gotsta hire youself a leprechaun to slide into that arborwhatsit with a pistol type metal detecktin devise.?ÿ He'll bring you the luck an' da asnwer.?ÿ NE is golden.?ÿ SE will be golden thanks to do leprechaun.?ÿ BAM! DONE!
Is there a distance that if found off from calcs (when holding tight road monuments) that you would reset the corners? Seems a bit suspect that all the road monuments are consistent, yet the 3 corners don??t work with each other by a significant amount for 1995 standards.
I??d imagine the odds of a surveyor staking multiple road monuments consistent with each other, but 3 corners on a small property inconsistent with one another less likely than the odds of the 3 corners being moved at some point by a fence builder, homeowner, etc.
Just a thought.
what road monuments?
say for discussion sake, the road is a state hwy or county road. Not Surveyed by the subdivision surveyor, likely, but not unheard of or suspicious.
I'm not beating you down, just curious why you're mentioning road monuments.
post doubled
There are places where subdivisions are laid out with monuments set in the road (after construction) rather than at block corners.
Movement of lot corner monuments is fairly common due to actions of property owners.?ÿ For example, the want to build a fence exactly on line.?ÿ They pull the monument, drill a hole right there for the post, then jab the monument back in adjacent to the post, possibly in concrete?ÿ poured around the post.
That is why I suggested the bar set in pavement above might be in its original location.
You surveyed everything outside these three monuments. It all agrees in the subdivision within .1' and you find monuments up to .8' in mathematical disagreement from the plat monuments. If these really are original undisturbed monuments you hold them and use all the evidence you can find to replace the missing one.
One is driven into pavement?
Was the pavement there in 1995 or is it newer??ÿ
I think I would question the idea that all of the monuments are undisturbed. Any that you determine to be undisturbed should be held. Does occupation match the monuments that are .8' off? Do you make things better by not honoring the found monuments and setting your own? Will any one be disturbed by you setting new monuments? The idea of holding undisturbed subdivision monuments is really hampered by our ability to determine what is undisturbed.
Unless there are already pin cushions at the corners, hold all found monuments that and report the difference between what was measured and what the recorded documents (plats & deeds) specify.
You have 3 monuments that are all south of your calculated position.?ÿ That might indicate a need to shift your calculations.?ÿ
You aren't clear on what you are holding to calculate from, maybe that 5th monument you mentioned? Why is it assumed to be any better than the lot corners?
How do these monuments fit the adjoiners other corners??ÿ If two lots add up to the right distance but one is long and the other short, then you have evidence for a disturbed one.?ÿ If nothing adds up any better, then they were probably all poorly placed but will hold.
Is there any reason they would have put a monument in a sewer type case? You should be able to get a folding rule in there to see if you calculated position hits the case, and ifn ot get a magnetic locator into the hedge to find out if there is a rebar nearby.
You don't mention angles.?ÿ They should help decide what fits and what doesn't.
Radar,
Great topic for discussion.?ÿ Lots of good questions, keep it going and give us some answers and maybe a sketch with all found mons.?ÿ Thanks, Jp
Here in Washington State, generally when speaking of Plat monuments, we are referring to centerline of road monuments set during the subdivision process. I may be mistaken, but this is what I believe Radar was referring to when he speaks of "5 plat monuments that agree with each other". And since here in Washington State we define "controlling monuments" as road centerline monuments, exterior subdivision corners, and block corners, this leads us to have pause when noticing property corners so inconsistent with these other "controlling monuments". It is not to say that these controlling monuments supersede the existing property corner monuments, just something to be aware of when making a final determination.
?ÿAttached is a short 7 page report by the BOR to clarify an Attorney General's Opinion (AGO 1989 No.1 ), which has some good information about when to file a Record of Survey in Washington State, but also makes reference to "controlling monuments" in a way which appears they are of much importance.
thank you!
I'm in Colorado and familiar with New Mexico too, so have no idea about the regional and local traditions and practices. This is why I always ask questions. I'm like a 10yo,always asking.
Thank you for your insight and Information. I appreciate it.
@jp7191?ÿ
I like to think: if I find something, anything, within a coffee can, I'm golden, in most cases. But 0.8' is pushing it; I'd have to flatten the can out, and then, maybe. Does anyone even buy coffee in a can anymore??ÿ ?ÿ But I digress...
I'm 99% confident that the corners on the north line are original and undisturbed. I'm going to hold them. The occupation, a cedar fence, on the East side, goes to the corner in the asphalt. I don't have solid proof, but I'm pretty sure the asphalt was there before the plat was surveyed.
Unless there are already pin cushions at the corners, hold all found monuments that and report the difference between what was measured and what the recorded documents (plats & deeds) specify
That's my plan, it is what it is...
The other corners in the plat, that I found, are in about the same shape; no rhyme or reason; it's like the guy took a rebar, threw it up in the air, in the direction of the corner; where it landed was where it was driven. I talked to another old surveyor, from around here, and said he probably knew who the party chief was, and that his work was questionable at best.
I'm surveying lot 1
I found the intersection monument; the radius point monument in the cul-de-sac; the monument at the centerline of Parker at the south line of the north 100'; the monument at the angle point in the south line of the north 100' and the monument 100' north; and the monument in the centerline of Parker at the south line of the plat. All these monuments are standard city of Sumner Monuments.
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Bob Bennett is a good surveyor, I've found is work to be good, in most cases. Just not sure about some of the people that have worked for him over the years...
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At the end of the day, nothing changes; my client still owns lot 1, Parker Court. I found, what I believe to be original evidence as to where that is, on the ground.
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The Nisqually Quake of 2001 really shook things up around here, but I doubt that it would move the property corners around that much, yet leave the monuments alone.
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Like I said, it is what it is...
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Thanks, again, to all the good people on this board; it's good to confirm, what I knew all along
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Lot corners set with stadia and a level and a tall rod?
Lot corners set from preliminary control before the plat monuments and the paving?
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Lot corners set with stadia and a level and a tall rod?
I can't imagine anyone using this method, in 1995, but then anything is possible.
Lot corners set from preliminary control before the plat monuments and the paving?
That's a solid possibility, but only speculation at this point.
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It is what it is...
I found the place on Google Earth, and I see what you mean about the hedge.
