New 2016 ALTA/NSPS Standards Effective TODAY

Thanks for the reminder Wendell! So, here is a hypothetical question. If a surveyor is currently in the process of performing an ALTA survey that was contracted under the 2011 ALTA/ACSM standards. Do we update our survey to the 2016 ALTA/NSPS standards, or is this strictly up to the client/surveyors preference? Just curious. Thank you.

Big Lance, post: 359233, member: 11008 wrote: Thanks for the reminder Wendell! So, here is a hypothetical question. If a surveyor is currently in the process of performing an ALTA survey that was contracted under the 2011 ALTA/ACSM standards. Do we update our survey to the 2016 ALTA/NSPS standards, or is this strictly up to the client/surveyors preference? Just curious. Thank you.

IMHO, if you agreed to 2011 Standards, you can stick with them but make sure you specifically state on the survey that they are 2011 Standards. Maybe even a note to specify that the agreement was made prior to the effective date of the new Standards. However, if the new Standards don't have a major impact on your existing survey, it might not hurt to just confirm with your client and go with the new Standards.

Big Lance, post: 359233, member: 11008 wrote: Thanks for the reminder Wendell! So, here is a hypothetical question. If a surveyor is currently in the process of performing an ALTA survey that was contracted under the 2011 ALTA/ACSM standards. Do we update our survey to the 2016 ALTA/NSPS standards, or is this strictly up to the client/surveyors preference? Just curious. Thank you.

Gary Kent said to go ahead and stick to the standards you contracted under.

Tommy Young, post: 359238, member: 703 wrote: Gary Kent said to go ahead and stick to the standards you contracted under.

sounds reasonable, except what if your client (actually the insurer) wants the Latest? Yes that would be a change in scope, and perhaps justify an additional fee. ASK!

these things always come down at the very last minute, be proactive.

Good to know.

"Item 18 removes the requirement to show evidence of a solid waste dump, sanitary landfill, or sump."

That's a relief. The improvements on about half the surveys I do could be construed as "solid waste dumps" in my twisted mind...:pinch:

Working on one now. When I drafted the contract I specifically said 2016 because they are much better than 2011

I wonder when NCEES will integrate the new standards into the exams? Also new FEMA standards will need to be addressed as well.

has NCEES ever integrated ALTA standards in any of the exams? that would seem to be off point for State licensing

OK, serious question here. The new standards move observed evidence of utilities from an option to mandatory. I absolutely understand the reason behind this, and in theory I agree with it. However in practicality how am I supposed to certify to these standards with any sort of snow cover? Just not do ALTAs in the wintertime? 6 months without a ALTA request, and I get one on the morning the standards change, and we have 2 feet of snow cover, over 4" of ice everywhere with a huge winter storm bearing down on us. Sadly, I don't think anyone working in a Northern climate had any input on this.

toivo1037, post: 359414, member: 973 wrote: OK, serious question here. The new standards move observed evidence of utilities from an option to mandatory. I absolutely understand the reason behind this, and in theory I agree with it. However in practicality how am I supposed to certify to these standards with any sort of snow cover? Just not do ALTAs in the wintertime? 6 months without a ALTA request, and I get one on the morning the standards change, and we have 2 feet of snow cover, over 4" of ice everywhere with a huge winter storm bearing down on us. Sadly, I don't think anyone working in a Northern climate had any input on this.

From the new standards:

Evidence on or above the surface of the surveyed property observed in the process of
conducting the fieldwork, which evidence may indicate utilities located on, over or beneath
the surveyed property. Examples of such evidence include pipeline markers, manholes,
valves, meters, transformers, pedestals, clean-outs, utility poles, overhead lines and guy
wires.

No one expects us to have x-ray vision, you can only "observe" that which is "observable". Just put everyone on notice as to the facts at the time of the survey

NOTE: Field survey was performed on January 23-26, 2016; at that time there was approximately 2 feet of snow cover on the subject property. While all observed evidence of utilities were surveyed (per the ALTA/NSPS Standards) and depicted hereon, and an attempt was made to search for possible surface utility information that may have been obscured during the field survey, the certifying surveyor can not state that all utilities that would be observable without snow cover are shown hereon.

FWIW - my understanding is that showing surface evidence of recorded or possible unrecorded easements or servitudes, such as utilities, was always the intent of the easement section of the previous standards; it's just that the standards were written in an manner that left this vague. The removal of 11(a) just helps clarify this intent in the new version.

NCEES has incorporated the ALTA standards in their Principles and Practice of Surveying (PS) Exam Reference Handbook for some time now, last revised in 2014. See NCEES website for online version, you may be surprised what is provided for the closed book test.

I would assume they will be revising it again due to new standards as they transition PS exam into computer based testing.

I did a proposal for one yesterday and I like the new standards better. I had caught grief a couple times in the past with attorney's telling me to put the amount of insurance in the certificate. I never did it, the new standards spell out pretty clearly that a surveyor doesn't have to put this info on the plat. I also make sure to send a copy of the standards along with my proposal so when somebody asks for something stupid I can ask them if they have read the standards.

toivo1037, post: 359414, member: 973 wrote: OK, serious question here. The new standards move observed evidence of utilities from an option to mandatory. I absolutely understand the reason behind this, and in theory I agree with it. However in practicality how am I supposed to certify to these standards with any sort of snow cover? Just not do ALTAs in the wintertime? 6 months without a ALTA request, and I get one on the morning the standards change, and we have 2 feet of snow cover, over 4" of ice everywhere with a huge winter storm bearing down on us. Sadly, I don't think anyone working in a Northern climate had any input on this.

"...how am I supposed to certify to these standards with any sort of snow cover?"

It's easy - you just say you will do your best and put a note on your map. Or, you just say no. We have an annual snowfall average here of 110", and in 42 years this has only been a problem on one occasion (and that was primarily because we were requied to work only at night.)