I'm not sure how things work in those non recording states but if I have a copy of a map in my records and someone that is not my client asks for it I ask them to obtain permission in writing from my client before releasing my work for free. Why should I release my own work documents to someone that is not my client? That makes no sense. I only work in recording states so I have never had this exact scenario happen with a boundary survey(I have with other types of non-recording maps though).
With that said, I dont work for Real Estate agents ever, never have and never will. A Harris identified the reasons why quite well.
Tom Adams, post: 352857, member: 7285 wrote: Why can't her secretary (or herself) type up a prewritten description from off a plat? Why in the world would they want to call a professional to do their typing?
Because then she can't say, "this description came from the surveyor...
Deed Staker, post: 352809, member: 9807 wrote: This is the second one of this type this week!
Yesterday it was a title company who wished for me to retype the legal from my plat into a Word document and send back to them so they could copy and paste into a title commitment?!?!?! Keep in mind, this title company is not and was never my client and they are representing another party. When I mentioned the fee associated, he politely told me 'No thank you, I do not want to incur any more costs on my client.' He went on to say that other surveyors do this for him all the time. Well fat chance of me doing it for free!
The nerve of some people :pissed:
Thank you for the responses!
I am glad to copy and paste my legal descriptions and e-mail those to any title company for them to copy and paste. Helps them to avoid fat finger blunders when retyping.
I'm with Mr. Harris. If you're not my client, I'm not obligated to give you anything. Especially something that I know full well will likely be misrepresented, misinterpreted and could bring liability to myself or my company. As a professional, IMHO you are obligated to educate this person on the utter irresponsibility of using a 50 year old survey to represent the realities of the property today.
'Mrs. RE lady, I can well see time has been kind to you, but would you say a 50 year old photo of yourself is an honest portrayal of the way you look today?'
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
Brad Ott, post: 352865, member: 197 wrote: I am glad to copy and paste my legal descriptions and e-mail those to any title company for them to copy and paste. Helps them to avoid fat finger blunders when retyping.
What really licked the red off of my candy was the fact that they would rather call me and ask me to type something for FREE. They weren't willing to ask one of their pee-ons to do it. I have no problem performing this task as long as I get compensated for my time.
The only thing that gets out of this office is if the person that hired us wants a copy of the survey, we'll give it to them.
Williwaw, post: 352869, member: 7066 wrote:
'Mrs. RE lady, I can well see time has been kind to you, but would you say a 50 year old photo of yourself is an honest portrayal of the way you look today?'
...[SARCASM]and then the fight started.....[/SARCASM]
Rankin_File, post: 352864, member: 101 wrote: Because then she can't say, "this description came from the surveyor...
Why not? All she has to do is make sure it is the same language as is on the plat verbatim. The words came from a surveyor a scrivener just retyped them.
Unless they require a signature and a seal from a surveyor. It sounds like the RE Agent wanted to treat him like one of her peons but didn't even want to offer minimum wage, much less a secretary's wage.
UPDATE:
I just got off the phone with her. As much as I would like to retell a fiery exchange of swearing and stomping, she was, in fact, very understanding. Looks like we will be surveying it for the client. Well, as soon as he calls to schedule and sign the contract.
Thanks for the advice!
That's a much better outcome than a fiery exchange of swearing and stomping - though maybe not as entertaining for the rest of us to read.
Seems like you handled the situation appropriately.
If you give a copy (I'm not sure that you should), maybe hand write a note in red with highlighter that this survey was performed 50+ years ago...blah blah blah. Just an idea, but in no way should you consider this actual advice on what to do.
"If you give a copy (I'm not sure that you should), maybe hand write a note in red with highlighter that this survey was performed 50+ years ago...blah blah blah. Just an idea, but in no way should you consider this actual advice on what to do. "
In the Case I refereed to earlier, the surveyor did put disclaimers on the survey copy. He was still held liable.
Steve Gilbert, post: 352918, member: 111 wrote: In the Case I refereed to earlier, the surveyor did put disclaimers on the survey copy. He was still held liable.
In your earlier post, you only said that he was named in a lawsuit. Are you saying now that not only was he unable to get a summary ruling to drop him from the suit, but that he went through trial and lost?
Unless he did something that could be inferred as having represented the old map as being currently reliable, that's hard to fathom.
"Unfortunately we do not have all the original copies from the Surveyor. We can try and see if we can locate it for you"
Then "sorry we were unable to locate the original. We can get you a proposal for a new survey if you would like"
Or we usually tell them that we don't have all the originals but even if we did we do not give out any copies of things done that long ago.
Tom Adams, post: 352857, member: 7285 wrote: Why can't her secretary (or herself) type up a prewritten description from off a plat? Why in the world would they want to call a professional to do their typing?
Because Surveyors are working for less than their Paralegals and take all the liability.
I am somewhat troubled by the fact that many of the responses here seem to advocate being dishonest as to the existence of the plan in question. While it is certainly your prerogative whether you give out copies of the plan, it seems to me that lying about the plan's presence in your holdings is unethical. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think it a better course of action to explain why said 50 year old plan may be valuable to a surveyor as a reference of what was there, but has little use in terms of what is on/in the ground today, and why you cannot dispense the plan for the purposes she intends.
That being said, I am glad to hear that the OP has had an amicable solution to his situation.
Paul D, post: 353008, member: 323 wrote: I am somewhat troubled by the fact that many of the responses here seem to advocate being dishonest as to the existence of the plan in question. While it is certainly your prerogative whether you give out copies of the plan, it seems to me that lying about the plan's presence in your holdings is unethical. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think it a better course of action to explain why said 50 year old plan may be valuable to a surveyor as a reference of what was there, but has little use in terms of what is on/in the ground today, and why you cannot dispense the plan for the purposes she intends.
That being said, I am glad to hear that the OP has had an amicable solution to his situation.
My take exactly. Here, on a forum where PROFESSIONALS gather and share ideas, it is advocated for supposed PROFESSIONALS to LIE?
Is it any wonder we are where we are in lack of respect and compensation? 🙁
Come on, we should be better than this.
Deed Staker, post: 352794, member: 9807 wrote: ...and asked for a copy of a survey performed back in the 60's by this firm. The surveyor that certified the work has passed away. She said quote, "Rather than reinvent the wheel, I would like to start with the old survey." The client does not want to pay for a new survey. Hmmm.
Ms. RE Agent is somewhat a prominent individual in the community. I don't want to piss her off, but I am leary about sending this out.
What do you guys do? Any liability issues?
My standard response is that we do not give copies to anyone but the person whom it was originally done for and only for the first year. Past that, the liability is too great and we would be happy to give you an estimate on what we think it will cost to perform a new survey.
eapls2708, post: 352948, member: 589 wrote: In your earlier post, you only said that he was named in a lawsuit. Are you saying now that not only was he unable to get a summary ruling to drop him from the suit, but that he went through trial and lost?
Unless he did something that could be inferred as having represented the old map as being currently reliable, that's hard to fathom.
Once it got to court, he was dismissed. The plaintiff's attorney, a well respected one who personally knew the surveyor, later told him he should never release old surveys to anyone without performing and charging for an update.
He does provide them to other surveyors when asked.
Paul D, post: 353008, member: 323 wrote: I am somewhat troubled by the fact that many of the responses here seem to advocate being dishonest as to the existence of the plan in question. While it is certainly your prerogative whether you give out copies of the plan, it seems to me that lying about the plan's presence in your holdings is unethical. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think it a better course of action to explain why said 50 year old plan may be valuable to a surveyor as a reference of what was there, but has little use in terms of what is on/in the ground today, and why you cannot dispense the plan for the purposes she intends.
That being said, I am glad to hear that the OP has had an amicable solution to his situation.
I'm sorry if my post implied dishonesty. We do not lie if we have the copy. We truly do not have all the old originals. If we don't have it, we say so. If we do, then we say we don't release copies of things that old. We also tell them they are welcome to come and see the copy in person if they would like.