@brad-ott ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????ÿ
I can appreciate the idea that you didn't feel like you could address that person about the matter, not agree with, but appreciate.
How do you think team moral is going to be between the email originator and you now that you didn't even discuss the matter with him first?
There has been too much water under that bridge.
The team morale has been put into jeopardy from his previous castigation towards us.?ÿ I haven't shared the entire history.
As far as using previous experiences and judgement, I learned that it depends on how you respond based on your direct experience and comparison, and having had enough of the same or similar experiences and judgement based on longer relationships, not knowing who how where or what other than the director especially with knowledge from the previous employees whom left for similar reasons, I chose what I did to save them from the two new guys from quitting and leaving them in a bigger lurch than they already are finding themselves.
It's not a complete disaster.
At the very least, we have a place to start from now where he can either respect our being adults and people that can take direction and get work done, but will not take $H?T from non founded accusations and emotional turmoil that we had nothing to do with to begin with.
I respect his life experience and command of the construction staking abilities.?ÿ I'm duly impressed by his depth of understanding the facets of the process only a few decades of doing it could be attained from.
People skills are a low point for many engineers unfortunately, and that is where he started before he was surveying.
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I'm more impressed by the responses from across the spectrum from the people on this site, truly a difficult and multi variable based discussion, and prescient to the complexity of this career path.
Thank you all for your time and consternation.
Even you Radar and you poop obsessed responses.
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Did you have a discussion with the email originator?
Oh, if only it were that simple.
I'll admit I'm pretty cynical when it comes to people changing, especially older people.?ÿ It's so bad I usually won't even try.?ÿ I find it hard to believe someone who hasn't learned how to not be a douchebag by the time they're 50 or 60 is suddenly gonna turn it all around.
Never know though; might be worth a shot.
The take-away for me is that going over emails before sending to remove superfluous verbiage is time well spent.
I had a manager that would send reports with no body; just the title of the report as the subject and the attachment, that may be taking it a bit far but I appreciate the spirit of it.
I have always been fairly open and honest in my verbal communication but lately am recognizing that I should put some work into developing a more guarded and positive tone.?ÿ
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Good idea.
Better idea:
Always treat Coworkers and subordinates with respect and the extra work is uneeded for situations similar to this.
Ymmv.
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@flga-2-2?ÿ
Yes, or you could do that...
Oh, if only it were that simple.
That may seem like the simple answer, but surprisingly it is the most difficult for many people.?ÿ When there is the potential for a confrontational discussion, many people find reasons/ways to avoid it.
If someone gets extremely angry and can act immediately in a openly hostile manner, they think they have the ability to have such a conversation that may be contentious.?ÿ But the reality is that sitting down in an adult, professional setting and hashing out issues is very difficult for many people (and I'm not pointing fingers as one would have to be directed at me if I were).
People skills are a low point for many engineers unfortunately, and that is where he started before he was surveying.
I know you have been around surveyors.?ÿ I think there is some saying about pots and kettles that would apply here.
This person may be technically correct, but needs to start or repeat Management 101.
Sounds like him management is okay, leadership on the otherhand....
Oh, if only it were that simple.
That may seem like the simple answer, but surprisingly it is the most difficult for many people.?ÿ When there is the potential for a confrontational discussion, many people find reasons/ways to avoid it.
If someone gets extremely angry and can act immediately in a openly hostile manner, they think they have the ability to have such a conversation that may be contentious.?ÿ But the reality is that sitting down in an adult, professional setting and hashing out issues is very difficult for many people (and I'm not pointing fingers as one would have to be directed at me if I were).
No, no I don't mean the conversation being simple.?ÿ I'm talking about changing someone's behavior being that simple.?ÿ I agree the conversation would be awkward, but I have zero confidence that the person is actually going to change.
I've been around people that have been spoken to about their behavior before and if the person modified their behavior it's because they were threatened with being fired or demoted or something along these lines and not necessarily because they saw the reasoning behind it.
So this makes it almost worse because now the person is chronically angry about not being able to act the way they've acted their entire adult life, and that anger manifests itself in other ways.
I've worked amoungst Both, a lot, and the spectrum is amazing.
I'm not attacking my direct supervisor because I want to to, it's purely from a position of self preservation and professional expectations.?ÿ
I have my own scar tissue too, and when I react, I always do a step back first to see if (my better 2/3s always helps with this too) I'm just being overly sensitive and overwhelmed and overreacting with that, but in this case, an Independent person who has been experiencing the same thing separately from me until this conjoined email, let me realize it's not just scar tissue. It's a pathology of someone who has been doing this for a long time.?ÿ And I'm not going to condemn the situation because there's a possibility to continue to work towards better communication with us and even leadership.?ÿ
The results will be right here from whatever falls out, and I'll continue working hard doing the best I can regardless of the outcome.?ÿ I'm a para professional of survey work and clients are in need of what I'm assigned to do for their projects.
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@bstrand?ÿ
And I'm not looking forward to that retaliation and retribution if it goes that way which would be Indeed the worst possible scenario.
Hopefully it won't.
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I'm talking about changing someone's behavior being that simple.
Well, its a heck of a lot more difficult when people decide there is no point to attempting to communicate.?ÿ Again, not pointing fingers because on some matters I would be as guilty as anyone else about not communicating.
We've been told there is much more backstory, so there may be valid reason to have not discussed the issue in person.?ÿ But from the email that was posted, that really appears to be something that should be addressed person to person.?ÿ About 98% of it was simply someone being overly specific in direction with about 2% possible condescension (and that 2% could have been stated a different way and many people who took issue with the original wording would have no issue with the actual idea.).
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Fair enough.
I'm going to be approaching the open communication model going forward and see if it works out.
At the worst, his boss, is awake to how drastically different this office has been existing, and supported our rebuking to the email as unprofessional and inappropriate.
We're all going to be under his microscope for a while now so we better all act like we want to work here and get along and maybe even enjoy doing so too.
We're all replaceable. Period. License or not(especially not)
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This has been an interesting and didactic discussion.
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Thank you all for the candor.
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I have provided information to my co-workers in the past that might appear to take on such a tone.?ÿ But, I try to view the message as I would if I were the one receiving it.?ÿ That helps tremendously in maintaining a good relationship with subordinates.?ÿ Typically, it would be a numbered list of information.?ÿ Generally, helpful information.
1. Address is 42075 Chase Road and client is known as Bucky Roberts.
2. Typical boundary survey, nothing more.?ÿ Call if he starts wanting something else added.
3. Because this is in Magic City, remember to (some bizarre local demand that is not standard SOP).
4. Neighbor to north is a PITA.?ÿ Prepare for a confrontation.
5.?ÿ Client would prefer setting 1" bars at corners, leave them up a few inches and paint them red with a two-foot diameter circle of red paint on grass around bar
6. (Any other thing that is unique to this job)
I read and perceive no Condescending tone in what youve typed.
Seems like a great set of instructions and leaves room for communication and questions to be asked to clarify.
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@kevin-hines What specifically is it you don't understand? I'd be glad to explain it to you. Autocorrect sure screws things up.
That was shorthand for me attempting to tell you that @jitterboogie received the email, not me.?ÿ I guess I should have used my words instead of assuming you could read my mind.
My mother used to tell me, when I was that age, "It isn't what you say, it's how you say it".?ÿ The OP's project manager didn't really make any irrational comments or demands, he just made them in an irritating, disrespectful way.?ÿ ?ÿ