Map Datum In Canada WGS

Pete,

Funny you would post at nearly the same time I was going to post a similar question.
I'm using Topcon Magnet in field controller, so I can't help with your Carlson question.
My project datum is:
Horizontal: UTM North Zone 17: 84W to 78W
Reference Frame: NAD83(CSRS) Epoch 2010.0
GEOID Model: CGG2013a

Next week Iƒ??ll be heading to Kirkland, Ontario Canada. Was wondering if you could help me. I am trying to find where to ask for access to the GPS real time network in Ontario, Canada. More specifically Station Name TOPNET-TKIR in Kirkland, ON. http://webapp.geod.nrcan.gc.ca/geod/data-donnees/station/report-rapport.php?id=TKIR

I have already tried contacting Topcon. But there link is dead https://rtkamericas.topnetlive.com/usa/networks/topnet-live-north-america , phone number on web site says to contact Scott Harris at 855-867-6385, no longer in service.

I cannot find any contact information to access real time corrections.

Lee-

Not my area of expertise what you are looking for I think, but would this be of use ?

http://www.gisapplication.lrc.gov.on.ca/cosineONT/Index.html?site=cosine&viewer=OntarioViewer&locale=en-US

There is also what we call "The PPP" in our office from NR Canada

https://webapp.geod.nrcan.gc.ca/geod/tools-outils/ppp.php?locale=en

Is it Kirkland Lake Ontario ?

Cheers,

Derek

DEREK G. GRAHAM OLS OLIP, post: 435630, member: 285 wrote: Lee-

Not my area of expertise what you are looking for I think, but would this be of use ?

http://www.gisapplication.lrc.gov.on.ca/cosineONT/Index.html?site=cosine&viewer=OntarioViewer&locale=en-US

There is also what we call "The PPP" in our office from NR Canada

https://webapp.geod.nrcan.gc.ca/geod/tools-outils/ppp.php?locale=en

Is it Kirkland Lake Ontario ?

Cheers,

Derek

Thank you Derek.

Yes, you are correct. It is Kirkland Lake, ON

I have used PPP in past projects. Will use it here again. Just trying to use the local Network station via RTK. Not too often there is a RTK CORS nearby my projects in Canada.

Thanks Derek.

Sure looks like of controls points available in that area.

Peter Kozub, post: 435622, member: 375 wrote:

.... content munged ...

Please review the attached PDF what do you think

I disagree with slides 8 and 9 although she may have explained it better when discussing the slides.

I can't believe there's no rotation nor scale change between NAD27 and NAD83. Both exist between ITRFxx and NAD83! There's a reason why a file of grid shifts is used in Canada and the US to try to model the differences between the two datums. Maybe no consistent rotation nor scale change...

I"m aware of the multiple adjustments/realizations in BC. I've even discussed adding the NTv2 files into Esri software, but haven't done it yet. Having multiple adjustments should minimize the epoch issues within a realization because each new realization should include the velocity movements since the previous one.

Hi Lee

I know on this mine site that may they have lots of OLD Pre GPS control i assume !
well reinforce IT and upgrade, and clean it............. its not going to go away. Make a nice drawing and frame it
and hand it to the mine manager marry the managers Daughter etc.... and you be the Hero Survey Machine control Man

I would use your own base and localize to the mine site control.

If you contact the mine they may provide a drawing of ancient old school hard work survey control
printed on linen and looks like a old map out of Indiana Jones Movie

Just localize and setup your own BASE the network has a lot gotchas so why not use your own base
and get onto the mine control "plant system" and fix it to new world

If you do not follow the above

All you will is make them mad and confused them if you talk about map projections to fit north america
Cuba California BC Canada etc blah blah blah epoch realization etc.......................

From Javad PHD have your own base
https://www.javad.com/jgnss/javad/news/pr20151113.html

Pete

They sent me a DWG with contours and lots of soil test holes. No datums, and no control points. I dropped the dwg into Magnet, set the datum and then enabled background aerial. It plotted perfectly around the lake. I'll get more info on site. Just wanted to do my homework and cover all the bases. I have been doing this a long time. The engineers are often no help. I will look for the clothe Indiana Jones hand drawn maps.

Hi Lee

Well i hope this goes your way

But on some sites it seems that they purposely change engineers every year so or so to blurry
the paper trail. I hope this is not your case or the company / engineers are so out of touch they are
useless.

On the attached PDF the site had/was no proper Control drawing or even a mining plan ??? of quality
a also another site to the west 30 Km of similar size was the same garbage hill billy approach .

Having a nice GRID control plan stops all datum issues
This means no realization epoch datum etc etc voodoo network rovers pick the wrong datum etc................

So i made a control drawing that all could use no network or cell service RTK GPS.
Just set your own base and localize and start working what could be more
reliable / simple.

The key failure was
The people representing the owner and the owner itself wanted something but they did not know how
to set up job up so it failed Miserably. Hell i am not in the field of training.

The site was a joke run by multi large company clowns yes largest company's in CANADA

Your site may require the following.

A) detail site air based lidar/photo specific to the project site Check into this (how did this drawing you received come about ETC)
B) proper mine plan
C) proper control plan By LEE this is something you may have to do using PPP
D) uav every week on good weather site to big for ground survey your call.
E) topo the site to design up a earth moving plan and submit to owner/engineer for approval
Note the owner will hide behind the engineer. Hiding behind a civil engineer is like hiding behind a blade of grass.

Anyways not to be a dark cloud on your project

I suspect

1)You will have to make a control drawing
2) topo the site
3) design make a earth moving scheme
4) baby site customers so they get want they need (but don't understand)
5) pray good drawing set appears in autocad with PDFs

Please review the attached PDF

Pete

Pete,

What type of mine are you working on?

My Topcon dealer can't help, so I contacted Geoshack in Canada. They are sending me rates for a 100 hour subscription to TopNet. I'll use the RTN to find points, then occupy four simultaneously with my GNSS static receivers. I'll post process myself and use Canada PPP for a check.

Turns out it was just as you described, Pete. The Engineers had no clue of datum, so they brought their contract surveyor from 180Km away, whom was using UTM17 Metric with no GEOID. This mine has been in operation for nearly 100 years, so I personally inquired and tracked down the local mine surveyor. Neither surveyor had ever met or shared info. The mine datum is a Local Grid in Feet. Interesting enough that when I used the CORS from just 3 miles, which neither surveyors were aware existed. The Engineers surveyor provided above ground Lidar data that was in harmony with the CORS horizontal datum (UTM17 metric) by 5mm, with the vertical differing by 350mm. The local mine surveyor, working mostly under ground, is in harmony with the CORS elevations by 12mm.

Canada's PPP (Precise Point Positioning) which is the OPUS, provides a nice report which is very easy to read PDF format.