I posted awhile back about a project we worked on. We did the boundary and topo survey and the design on a large local project. The construction staking was awarded to a company that has to come from over an hour away whose quote was about half of our quote.
We got a call yesterday afternoon that they had stopped construction because our topo and benchmark information on the plans was wrong by 18" to 24". This morning, we sent a crew out to check the information. Everything checks.
They were using RTK to set some grade stakes and did something wrong. We used static sessions, RTK and VRS RTK in conjunction with traditional methods to complete the work originally and double checked everything so there should have been no problems.
Apparently they need to charge a little something extra on the next job to pay for some training to use that equipment.
sounds like someone needs to get invoiced
You know that any idiot with money can buy GPS equipment.
Too many times, they listen to the salesman's claims and start working, without really understanding what they are doing OR what the equipment is doing.
Really makes me hurt for our profession.
An old man once told me, YEARS ago, that the first thing you do when you pull up on a construction site, regardless of whether you set the TBM's or someone else, is you run between them. Quick, easy, and provides a record of it working or not working from jump street and saves pain and suffering on you long term.
Evidently, Lowballer, Inc., didn't receive that lesson.
NOT SURPRIIIISSSEEEDDDD!!!
I was asked by the client to check my topo because the other surveyor was missing my topo by a foot. My work checked, and I realized they had applied the defined elevation to a completely different bench mark.
Another time I was told by the client that the other surveyor couldn't find the site bench mark and wanted extra to run a new line of levels. I drove to the site and spotted the bench mark as I got out of the car. You couldn't miss it, a brass disk in the median curb. They were just looking for extra $$$.
Same surveyor, different project, told the client the site bench mark was gone (it was) and they had to run levels several miles to the site. No, the bench mark was gone but the panel control points were still there, still good, and should have been used. They were again looking for extra $$$.
18 to 24 inches -- that's pretty close for pushing the FUGARWE button!
Just sayin...
;o)
JBS
> We got a call yesterday afternoon that they had stopped construction because our topo and benchmark information on the plans was wrong by 18" to 24". This morning, we sent a crew out to check the information. Everything checks.
>
And so it begins.:-)
OK. I pull up to a job, get started and discover I disagree with everything by 18" to 24". Next thing I do is check myself against some known standards recognizing that I might have a problem. Anyone too stupid to check themselves before announcing to the nation that someon else does bad work deserves to have it announced to the nation that THEY ARE THE ONES DOING BAD WORK.
IN A CASE LIKE THIS....If it was me, I would require payment up front to go back to that site. Unless they provide surveyor quality verification that I was wrong, I wouldn't want to waste my time. They know that you, as a professional, will want to come out to verify when they tell you flatly "you are wrong".. it's in our blood. So they use that against us to get free work. resist!!
Sounds about right....I like how they assumed you were wrong before checking their own work. Then again, I guess the don't have the time or the budget to do any checking 😛
I had another "surveyor" tell me that all of our topographic data was wrong by 1'. Around here the difference between NAVD 88 and NGVD 29 varies from about 0.7 to 1.2'. When I asked "which datum are you using?" I got the bewildered look of confusion as a response.
excellent marking opportunity. don't just call back and say 'our stuff checks'. ask for a meeting with the boss. show him how it was checked. win back your project in spite of the lowballer!
Ahhhh the "false economy" of the low bid...
Bill them for your time to check the work.
I'm sure they'll enjoy the "service" provided to them
by their new "friends". After they're done fighting over
change orders that their "base bid" didn't cover, your bid
I'm sure will look quike a bit better to them!
Sounds like you'll likely get the staking portion
of their NEXT job from them after this great "learing" opportunity
on their part. (if they don't boot them, and hire you to FIX
things before they're done!)
Put your feet up, and make sure your billing rates reflect the
quality of your work.
Work on educating the contractor as to what a professional
ESTIMATE is.... versus a low bid.
Trades provide bids... we need to keep educating contractors, AND
the general public that we work from estimates, and bill at an hourly
rate... uh, maybe like a "professional" would?
Hang in there, sounds like your doing good work, let the lowballer
ruin THEIR reputation.... Then you'll find your reputation is worth far
more than the Low Bid.
Cheers!
not to hijack, but I just got a project back that I lost to a low baller... the topo on his survey shows 8-9' above sea level NAVD 88 "based on GPS"! um, there are only a few places on this island above 8' and this ain't one. and the lot is covered in Pine trees. (which I knew anyway) The real ground elevation is more like 2.5' above sea level.
So, the client came back to me and paid up front to get on my schedule for a real survey.
I said, I hope you didn't base your decision to buy this lot using those elevations for construction costs!
These types of calls really p..s me off. "Hey your stuff is wrong come fix it", without even checking what they a doing. From the time the call comes in to the time I can get it checked I am in agony. "Did we really screw it up that bad?", just to find out it is someone else's incompetency.
It takes time and money and causes lots of stress, send bills to the owner, the contractor and the other survey company, some one has to pay!
Joe
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country. Typing class 9th grade!
As one surveyor in a similar situation told me, "You don't know what you're talking about! I paid $40,000 for this gear. Are you telling me it's wrong? I staked my stuff out to deltas of zero by zero!"
I asked what he had used to localize.
His response, "Localize? You don't understand this RTK stuff."
|-)
only to hijack a hijacked reply
we ran the underlying control for a wastewater treatment facility
the contractor laid it out on his own
almost a year after the start, i got a very frantic call from the engineering manager, "Your benchmark is wrong, get a crew out here today and let's get some elevations."
I replied, "Huh, let me go see first".
I looked over the engineering plans and sure enough, the engineering drafter mis-typed the elevation by a foot.
The engineering manager responded that the contractor was supposed to run through the 3 BMs on the plan, then start building. The contractor used BM1, adjusted BM2 and started building.
We were hired to locate everything - for additional fees. Woo Hoo!
Good news, the plant is a foot low, so everything will flow. The mounding was over-compensated so that will not be an issue when they start pumping 2.2 million gallons a day through the facility.
wow, that could have been bad.
> only to hijack a hijacked reply
>
> we ran the underlying control for a wastewater treatment facility
> the contractor laid it out on his own
>
> almost a year after the start, i got a very frantic call from the engineering manager, "Your benchmark is wrong, get a crew out here today and let's get some elevations."
>
> I replied, "Huh, let me go see first".
>
> I looked over the engineering plans and sure enough, the engineering drafter mis-typed the elevation by a foot.
>
> The engineering manager responded that the contractor was supposed to run through the 3 BMs on the plan, then start building. The contractor used BM1, adjusted BM2 and started building.
>
> We were hired to locate everything - for additional fees. Woo Hoo!
>
> Good news, the plant is a foot low, so everything will flow. The mounding was over-compensated so that will not be an issue when they start pumping 2.2 million gallons a day through the facility.
What I see there is an almost perfect way to create a client who now truly does understand the importance of hiring a professional who understands what they are doing. The engineering manager will never again make the mistake of hiring a lowballer.
The surveyor who provides the best value is what is important, not the one who provides the cheapest price. This guy now knows that well.
Larry P