Is there meaning for lay and lie in the world of Survey? Which is correct: the land lay to the South or the land lies to South, maybe something else?
bridge
I would not prefer that the land lie. The land is situated... would be my choice of language. I am not a lawyer.
Very truly yours,
Mr. Language Person
The difference sounds to me like a present tense past tense thing. There must be a better way to say it, but I am no help.
I recently looked that up. Lay and lie are confusing (to me). I found my best answer with The Grammarist she wouldn't "lie" I'm sure.
Also check out the the different tenses of the words in the above link. The past tense of "lie" is "lay"...if it wasn't confusing enough.
When in doubt go to some other word entirely. "The land is south of said creek." Or "All of the land is south of said creek."
It is. It doesn't have a verb of action to describe it when used this way.
I put that pair in our writers group newsletter Education section recently, with some examples and links to further discussions:
The Noble Pen for Oct 1, 2015
Substitute the terms "adjacent" or "adjoining" instead. They're much more descriptive while avoiding the ambiguity. BTW "adjacent" means near but not necessarily touching; "adjoining" means next to or touching.
JBS
Guys, substitution is fine if you don't know exactly how to use a term, but that's not the question. The guys trying to find out the proper usage. I would say that the land "lies" to the south, but I'm not positive.
Dear Mr. Adams:
I disagree. I do know how to use the terms. Yet on reading the original post you will see there a question: "... maybe something else".
I took this to mean that there may be more appropriate language, hence, my suggestion.
The word lay nor lie are hideous words and do not belong in a description of land. The land is situated... is more clear and traditional verbiage in my opinion.
Sincerely,
Mr. Language Person
If you're looking for a "legal" meaning as the title to the post suggests, Black's law dictionary doesn't contain either term in the context given here. Therefore, you're left with the common definitions from the standard dictionary.
Grammatically, it's more of a crap shoot. In the context of land location, I'd say it's an intransitive verb so it would be most proper to use the word "lie" and it's derivations for tense. i.e. lie, lies, or lying.
I'd still shoot for substituting the word for adjacent or adjoining. After all, real property doesn't often stand up, walk away, or tell a "lie."
JBS
But really, is that your real name?
To me this falls into the same category as attempting to use a word for which you are unsure of the spelling. Go with what you know is correct.
With the specific words in question, I believe that "lie" (and its derivatives) are the ones I see used. I prefer the word "situate" (which is grammatically correct I've been told) typically. For example:
All that certain real property situate in Section 12...
I've also seen "being" used often:
Being a portion of Parcel 1...
Said land being south of the south right-of-way line...
I don't see anything about "lie" and "lay" in Wattles book on Writing Legal Descriptions. Perhaps that's why I've avoided usage of them.
Lie and Lay are not legal words (see Blacks Law Dictionary), and should not be a part of our descriptive text, my opinion. May others appear to feel the same on this subject. Very good conversation, thanks to all opinion. Everyone hopefully owns a Black's law Dictionary?
