Landowner Confrontation

You are the one Surveying the tract, you are the best one to know if you were trespassing.?ÿ

When this happens to me I just say I am sorry I am looking for the property corners, and must have taken a few extra steps when walking.?ÿ

I've never been accused of trespassing - only had to show our Right of Entry Statute once.

Sounds like the angry dude is trespassing.

Fences are only fences unless it is described in a deed or until a court decision says otherwise.

As usual, it depends. Trespass is defined in Statute. Some definitions can get a little strange. Being in or out of a subdivision, in or out of a city, hunting, digging or taking pictures all come into play. I can do the exact same thing in the exact same place and the answer will change based on my client.

Was he armed? We're you deep in his property? I usually tell them I know where I am you better know where you are.

I got stopped and harassed by a County Deputy once. He threatened to haul me to jail if he got another call. I gave him my "I know where I am speech". His attitude pissed me off I've been sorry ever since I didn't go up to the Sheriff's Office and have a sit-down with him and his boss.

I've never had a Landowner act that way. They don't know where their property lines are. It's usually a big bluff. Use your wonderful personality to cool em down.

Or tell them you'll Least Squares Adjust your survey and move all the corners. See ya in Court sir.

If that is his you handle owners please tell them you're a plumber or a utility worker. Anything but a Surveyor.

After I taze them, I whisper in their ear. "I'm the man!"

Plumbers are good people.

Posted by: billvhill

I was confronted by an angry landowner about trespassing on his property without his permission. He owns a mobile home that is partially set on a neighbor's tract. He may have an adverse claim since there is an old fallen fence, but he does not have actual title to that portion

I have a question; was this neighbor home when this occurred or did the neighbor arrive home after your work began?

I generally make it a point to knock on doors and let the neighbors know who I am and what I am working on before I begin my work.?ÿ It has been my experience that this effort on my part pays big dividends towards building a good rapport between myself and the communities in which I work.

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Posted by: billvhill

I was confronted by an angry landowner about trespassing on his property without his permission. He owns a mobile home that is partially set on a neighbor's tract. He may have an adverse claim since there is an old fallen fence, but he does not have actual title to that portion.

Was I trespassing?

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"Fences are only fences unless it is described in a deed or until a court decision says otherwise."

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Adverse Possession and other rights by prescription are very much misunderstood and can be confusing.?ÿ The quote immediately above is a very commonly held belief, but not quite true.

A title claim by AP actually ripens into valid title the moment all of the statutory requirements have been met.?ÿ Having a court bless it is not one of the statutory requirements.?ÿ When a court finds in favor of an adverse claimant, it is recognizing that the title is valid and already exists.?ÿ It is merely recognizing what is, not awarding the disputed property or taking the final step to create the title from a mere claim.

An unadjudicated title claim by AP may already be valid and have extinguished the written title that existed.?ÿ At this point, it is the superior and only valid title to the disputed area, but it isn't fully marketable.?ÿ Once the court considers all of the facts presented to it and recognizes that the title acquired by AP exists, and puts that in a filed judgment, then the title is also written and is marketable.

For the surveyor on the scene prior to an adverse claim having been adjudicated, recognizing and reliably determining all of the facts that would support or contradict a title claim by AP is exceedingly difficult in the vast majority of cases.?ÿ But to take the attitude that a fence is just a fence until a judge says otherwise can lead to trouble, depending upon how you handle it.

If the trailer dweller were able to take his claim to court and it's found to be valid title, then that title existed when you were on site and the title holder might convincingly argue that the facts of the fence and trailer location, coupled with his warning to you were sufficient to inform you of at least the possibility of a valid title right.?ÿ Under many trespassing statutes, you could be found guilty of trespassing.?ÿ Not likely, but possible.

Even if you could safely take the attitude that you couldn't or wouldn't be found guilty of trespassing (or any other tort for that matter), it still costs $$$ to defend yourself.?ÿ Even if your attorney is able to get the case against you dismissed by summary judgment, it will still cost you a few hours of your attorney's time to make it go away.

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I've come up against similar situations a couple of times.?ÿ What I do is explain that there is some confusion between the written record and the facts on the ground, and I'm just gathering the facts so that the confusion can get straightened out.?ÿ More often than not, if the adjacent landowner genuinely believes they own the ground you might consider disputed, they are more than happy to walk around and show you where they think their lines and corners are.?ÿ Give 'em a good ol' boy "Gee, thanks a lot.?ÿ You sure saved me some time in looking for all you've shown me."?ÿ After that, you will probably not be bothered again while completing your field work.

Take the attitude right off the bat that they are the trespassers, or try explaining that they might have an unwritten claim that isn't any good until a judge says so, and you are asking for things to go from touch and go to downright bad.

The neighbor told me that her daughter said he walked next door to her house and started taking pictures of the license plates of the vehicles in her yard. I was gone at this point. I guess he decided to trespass into her land.?ÿ It looked like there were remains of several small grows in a dense willow thicket adjacent to his mobile home not on his property.

I still need to go set corners, that's going to be interesting. I may just call the county sheriff. It didn't seem like he could be reasoned with. On the opposite side there is an open unoccupied lot which is his but I didn't feel he deserved to know

The neighbor told me that her daughter said he walked next door to her house and started taking pictures of the license plates of the vehicles in her yard. I was gone at this point. I guess he decided to trespass into her land.?ÿ It looked like there were remains of several small grows in a dense willow thicket adjacent to his mobile home not on his property.

I still need to go set corners, that's going to be interesting. I may just call the county sheriff. It didn't seem like he could be reasoned with. On the opposite side there is an open unoccupied lot which is his but I didn't feel he deserved to know

......he could be reasoned with. On the opposite side there is an open unoccupied lot which is his but I didn't feel he deserved to know....

its ok.?ÿ You did more than he deserved.?ÿ Be safe out there.?ÿ It's never fun talking someone down off the " i know my rights " cliff when you're alone, unarmed, and acting in good faith.

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j

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With AP, if the deeded owner simply gives permission to be in the tract mentioned, does that not defeat the potential for AP by the statutory process?

Verbal license may stop the clock during establishment, but it cannot undo ripened AP.

Posted by: billvhill

I was confronted by an angry landowner about trespassing on his property without his permission. He owns a mobile home that is partially set on a neighbor's tract. He may have an adverse claim since there is an old fallen fence, but he does not have actual title to that portion.

Was I trespassing?

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I can just imagine this:

You charged with trespassing.

Goes to court. Judge wants a copy of your survey, and to see where you were... To decide if you are guilty...

Tut tut...

My experience is if you file Trespass charged, you are the Plantiff. You have the burden of proving the Survey Trespass occurred. Very expensive, almost impossible to prove monetary damages. Most people won't pursue prosecuting Surveyor Trespass because there's no monetary benefit. I've been harassed by Deputy Sheriff's because someone claimed I was trespassing, but I've never been booked or prosecuted and I've been surveying for 40 years.

I would be very interested to know how many Surveyors ever actually have been prosecuted for Trespass in their careers. Other than Texas Surveyors, I'd guess pretty dang few.

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Idaho Surveyors only have right of entry for federal and transportation projects. Come July the PLS will be immune from certain trespass charges, but the crew will not. Trespass will also be redefined to include the appearance of trespass. The new law is the most horrific example of stupidity I've seen in a long time...

Posted by: Skeeter1996

I would be very interested to know how many Surveyors ever actually have been prosecuted for Trespass in their careers. Other than Texas Surveyors, I'd guess pretty dang few.

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I don't know of any criminal prosecutions, but the Mass. Board of Reg. disciplined a surveyor a few years ago for failing to provide "reasonable notice" prior to entering an abutting property, as required by our statute allowing surveyors to enter private lands. The field crew announcing to the disgruntled landowner that they have a right to trespass does not qualify as "reasonable notice".

(1) For the purposes of this section, the term "surveyor" means a licensed professional surveyor as defined in Section 73-13-71, and any person who is employed by or under the direct supervision of a professional surveyor licensed under Sections 73-13-71 through 73-13-97.

(2) A surveyor may enter in or upon public or private lands or waters, except buildings, while in the lawful performance of surveying duties without criminal liability for trespass; however, a surveyor shall make a good faith attempt to announce and identify himself and his intentions before entering upon private property and must present documentation sufficient to identify him as a surveyor to anyone requesting such identification.

(3) The provisions of this section do not relieve a surveyor from any civil liability that otherwise is actionable at law or in equity, and do not relieve a surveyor from criminal liability for trespass if the entry in or upon the property extends beyond the property or area that is necessary to actually perform the surveying duties.

(4) Surveyors shall be personally liable for any damage caused to private property when exercising entry under this section. No cause of action shall lie against a landowner for damages to a surveyor while on such lands unless the damage is caused by the intentional tortious conduct of landowner or his agent.