Kokomo ~ why should they go to the expense and pay the ...

> Does this municipality have an amateur firefighter as Fire Chief ?

I do not think that you would find a Fire Chief on the face of the earth that would call another fire fighter an amateur. Why Surveyors do it is beyond me.

Maybe someone from Indiana can weigh in on this but I don't believe that the County Surveyor office requires a PS or PE. The primary function being drainage maintenance.

> Maybe someone from Indiana can weigh in on this ....

Of those that remember a certain Hub Northing from the old board, perhaps somebody has his Cell number. I'm sure he'd weigh in if he could.

Then again, he was just a fence line staker posing as an authority on boundary lines.... such as this seems to be.

Sad, really sad

> > Does this municipality have an amateur firefighter as Fire Chief ?
>
>
> I do not think that you would find a Fire Chief on the face of the earth that would call another fire fighter an amateur. Why Surveyors do it is beyond me.

No, but I'm certain that you would find thousands of firefighters who would call a fire chief whose firefighting experience was limited to dousing a campfire an ameteur.

If you read the story at the link, you see that this guy (a retired fire chief) knows little of surveying beyond that they replace a few section corners each year, that they sometimes work in the rain, and that they have something to do with infrastructure.

He doesn't seem to know that there is a difference between a municipal water system and the storm system (he is going to check the drains for problems with an aging water system).

This little bit seems to sum up his perception of the complexity of land surveying:

>Granted, there are some technical things that I am going to have to learn, but on >day-to-day responsibility stuff I have had to do up to now, I haven't seen that.
>
>To me, it falls back to counting on your staff to be there if you need them, just >like I try to be there if they need me. You have to use your common sense. I think >everybody knows water runs down hill. I don't mean to take anything away from the >job, but it is not rocket science. It is just having a willingness to get in there >and get dirty.

I guess as long as I know that fires tend to go out when you deprive them of oxygen, and I'm willing to get a little soot on me from time to time, I'm fully qualified as a fire chief. I'll just rely on my staff to man the hoses and swing the axes. As long as my administrative and customer service skills are good, what else would I need to do the job?

Sorry, Robert, this isn't just some simple matter of labeling him an ameteur surveyor simply because he lacks a license. When it comes to surveying, he is an ametuer. Or put another way, most of us are just as professional in the vocation of firefighting as he is in the vocation of surveying.

> Sorry, Robert, this isn't just some simple matter of labeling him an ameteur surveyor simply because he lacks a license. When it comes to surveying, he is an ametuer.

I didnt actually click the link and read the article. I acquiesce my statement.

After reading the article, I thought Mr Roadhands seeming flippant comment was spot on, whether he read it or not.

The bigger issue, which is what I believe Derek was posting this about, is the public perception of a surveyor and the service we provide the public. It seems this appointment in IN is just a beginning of an end.

Whether or not a fire chief is a bureaucratic position, or really does put out fires, is immaterial. The fact that a state would allow for anybody with his seeming expertise, or lack thereof, to be allowed to function in the capacity of a 'county surveyor' is HUGE.

It appears that the reason that a non-surveyor can have the job is that it's an elected position. There needs to be a surveyor willing to run and defeat the fire chief. This is similar to non-lawyers elected to be a judge. Although, some have argued that the best judges have been non-lawyers.

Elected Position

In CA, the office of County Surveyor is an elected position (by initial definition in the Govt Code). The law also states that the County Surveyor must be a person licensed as a surveyor or authorized to perform land surveys (a pre-82 CE).

It should not be automatic that because a position is an elected one, that there are no basic qualifications to provide for minimal competence in that position. It is an oversight on the part of the IN legislature and the surveyors that such statutory minimum qualifications are not in place.

The County Surveyor position deals with property and RW lines as much or more as with infrastructure improvements (construction layout), so the position should require a licensed surveyor to fill it.

It's a shame that the previous CS was so lacking in customer service, but that should not open the door to someone unqualified as a surveyor. Nor does the fact that the job is mostly administrative justify filling it with someone who is technically incompetent. The CS, even if performing almost entirely in an administrative capacity, is in responsible charge of the County's survey work, therefore he must be competent at the technical and legal aspects of surveying as well as be a competent administrator.

He may be an outstanding administrator and be a master of customer service, but I stand by my previous conclusion. Regardless of his administrative abilities, as is plain by his answers and comments in the interview, the man is an amateur as a surveyor. It's not a matter of surveyors calling another surveyor an amateur, it's a matter of accurately identifying him as an amateur because he is not a surveyor and apparently has little or no survey knowledge.

Aside: The law provides that the County BOS may put a proposition on county ballot to convert the position to an appointed one. All but 1 county (El Dorado) in CA have converted the Office of County Surveyor to an appointed position. End Aside

"perhaps somebody has his Cell number."

Good one:-)

Don