One of the few questions I post, and I feel rather stupid in asking, I’m sure the answer is staring me in the face …..
Ok, water and sewer mains being replaced on several streets. Stationing is based on the C/L of the road (a very NARROW road to boot) Engineer wants to hold the C/L stationing as the basis for all the work to be done (personally, I would use stationing for each of the components, road work, sewer main and water main) to make it easier for the client to read (?). No real problems with that, each street starts out as an equation station and runs either W-E or N-S. Except for one. It makes a 90deg bend North. My piping is on the outside of the C/L by about 8’. So the question is at the 90. My pipe extends past the 90 in the stationing about 20’ to a fire hydrant then turns and follows the C/L North. Do I continue holding the C/L and call out the fire hydrant as Sta. xx+xx, 20’ rt (IMHO, yes) or what?
TIA
-JD-
Flame on!
JD,
I don't quite understand the layout. How about a sketch?
Dave
" Do I continue holding the C/L and call out the fire hydrant as Sta. xx+xx, 20’ rt (IMHO, yes) or what?"
So it ends up being a liability question ? The station equation, at the extension of one tangent, would place it, also, at an actual station on the other tangent ?
You're just wondering how to mark the lath ?
Sta and Offset works well. Do as you've stated and change the offset from 8 to 20 and show those callouts necessary to clarify alignment changes.
Station and offset should work.
I'd follow up with layout sheets to the contractor, with an extra
couple of copies noted as for his field crew.
Around here, most contractors get the plan sets and the site supervisors
keep them in their trucks. The pipe laying foreman rarely sees the plans
or cutsheets around here.
Then, I'd try to teach the so called "engineer" what pipe stationing is
for both water and sewer/storm pipes..... ask him if he's seen manufacturer "lay sheets" usually a good example of stationing and appurtenance identification.
Worth a try...
Street stationing is for roadwork IMHO.
Best of luck!
Do everything you can to keep somebody from ordering pipe by subtracting start station from end station.
The stupidest question is the one that nobody bothers to ask before someone blows a gasket screaming WTF and you've boxed it up and bugged out. Who exactly is relying on your stationing and for what purpose? Are you computing the locations using the stationing and offsets or are you provided with the coordinates to stake and RP for construction. Has anyone asked the engineer and contractor their preference so there will be no misunderstanding? If it's a 90 degree bearing break in the alignment with no curve, that wouldn't exactly lend itself to describing a location on an extension of the tangent beyond the bearing break. Send the contractor and engineer a sketch of the problem and ask them how they'd like it resolved. Communication is your friend. Lack there of is your enemy.
:good:
If it's just a matter of what station to mark the lath, I wouldn't bother. What I would do is mark your lath with FH and leave the station "STA__________" blank set any offsets to that mark with the correct offset and provide a grade if required, but let them worry about what station is on the lath.
I would, before all that, back up a few fittings, or to the beginning of the sheet if you want, and confirm that the stationing works with the call for lengths of pipe i.e.
Station 12+30.00 8' Rt. 8" valve
<120' 8" HDP>
Station 13+50.00 8' Rt. 8"x8" Tee
<82' 8" HDP>
Station 14+32.00 8' Rt. 8" Valve
If it works out to the offsets on the next tangent, let the contractor worry about the magic marker station on the lath. They'll figure it out when they get down there.
If You Must Station
Assume at 8+20, CL stationing breaks 90° left;
8+20 10'R = 8+20.01 -10.01 0'R
8+20 +10 10'R = 8+20.01 -10.01 10'R
8+20 +10 0'R = 8+20.01 -0.01' 10'R
Negatives being too confusing do everything as 8+20 + +
There would be no 8+20 anything Left.
8+10 10'L = 8+30 10'L
Paul in PA
>Do I continue holding the C/L and call out the fire hydrant as Sta. xx+xx, 20’ rt (IMHO, yes) or what?
Yes. Otherwise you need a Station Equation to get back on station. Most recent data collector software handles this quite nicely.
Steve
Back Tangent extended
No dumb question. It appears all have missed it so far. In my experience we would label this along the back tangent extended past the PI. See example.
Put a coordinate on the fire hydrant.
Back Tangent extended
Right on, but the problem is your "Sta. 0+57.3 20' Rt." holds an actual position on the forward tangent. So you run the risk of the contractor using the lath station, a rag tape, and a trackhoe to do god knows what.
I think you're on the hook once you roll-your-own with the stationing, and the contractor excavates, welds, pressure tests, and back fills the misunderstanding.
Back Tangent extended
Put a station equation on the 90, and use a different stationing for the back tangent.
> If it's just a matter of what station to mark the lath, I wouldn't bother. What I would do is mark your lath with FH and leave the station "STA__________" blank set any offsets to that mark with the correct offset and provide a grade if required, but let them worry about what station is on the lath.
:good: There is no good answer here. Avoid trying to create one.
We use to write 8+27 bk at 20' rt. And if they wanted it offset two way it would 8+00 ahd at 7' rt. Jp
Ain't Beerleg Kewl!
Had to leave the office early yesterday, so didn't get a look at the responces until this morning. All darn good responces...
R.J.--just putting the notes on the water plan and profile sheets, and as I am the one to most likely lay this out, it is moot! But, I was taught to think like I was explaining the plan set to the stupidest person I know! Most likely,all the field hands will see is the lath marking the location and the RPs.
clearcut/NW/Steve-- I think that I will just show it as a station with offset. You're right, the plan set sits in the truck mostly and the pipe layers just lay the pipe where they're told (hopefully)
Bill93--you are oh so right! Hopefully the person doing the take-off for ordering the pipe will pay attention! (me most likely!)
Williwaw--I did ask the engineer, got that thousand yard stare .....(this is the fellow that didn't understand that S45degW is the same as N45degE!!)
Paul--stilling mulling over your responce!
Lee/RJ--think you may of nailed it as far as how I am going to call it out on the plan set. Definitely would need to make sure of no misunderstanding, as I am the one laying it out, that point is moot, but if I am not staking it, I certainly want to make things clear on what is intended.
Norman-- RIGHT ON!!
Jp--not quite following you?
Thanks again, all! This place has been one of the best resources I have!B-) :good: :good:
