I had a conversation with a land owner the other day that got me to thinking. When you guys set an iron pin in or near a fences line (rural not in a subdivision) how much do you leave stick up? He was asking that I leave it up 6 inches so he or anyone could find it again. Said the last a-hole (his words not mine) he had survey one of his farms set the pins down so far that after the first fall of leaves, he couldn't find them again. Are you one of the guys setting them flush or leaving half of a 30 inch pin sticking up? Do you survey for your client or the next surveyor coming behind you?
Darn good question and I have often wondered why and how the practice got started with the iron pin being driven flush with the ground?
Your purpose is not just for the next surveyor with a metal detector, it is for the benefit of your client who needs to be able to find it again.
If you think he's upset now wait until you tell him his line is 6 ft into his field.
I bury an iron for the next surveyor and set a chicken wire rod beside it for the owner.
Usually set 4-6" above grade. with ribbon & flag, painted flat, with ribbon, woven into the fence above pin.
I set monuments flush or just a little below ground unless in deep woods. Many clients will set their own sticking up several feet and several feet away from the ones I set.
>Do you survey for your client or the next surveyor coming behind you?
Both, in a secondary fashion..the property itself is my first concern. Owners and surveyors come and go.
We have a term here in Oklahoma called a "guard stake". I use this term when I speak to clients and let them know the "permanent" rebar is down there. I've set t-posts and any number of other things that the client requests also.
Kent has an angle on this that seems to work well. I'm not real keen on the longevity of poly-vinyl chloride, but it works and actually lasts longer than wood in a lot of cases.
> >Do you survey for your client or the next surveyor coming behind you?
>
> Both, in a secondary fashion..the property itself is my first concern. Owners and surveyors come and go.
>
> We have a term here in Oklahoma called a "guard stake". I use this term when I speak to clients and let them know the "permanent" rebar is down there. I've set t-posts and any number of other things that the client requests also.
>
> Kent has an angle on this that seems to work well. I'm not real keen on the longevity of poly-vinyl chloride, but it works and actually lasts longer than wood in a lot of cases.
PVC has been used for many years in So. Cal. as a visible marker for property corner monuments. Usually at least 8-10 feet tall in the brush. Easy for the owner to find and cheap to replace when necessary.B-)
When we set 30" rods, they are up 6" or so if they aren't going to be hit. If they are in an area where they could be hit, they will be set flush.
A surveyor around here used to set 3', 3/8" steel rods and leave them up 6". They never got dug out it seems but always bent over where you could ream the hole and rehab the rod.
Do what the client wants. But have the discussion as to why he wants it that way and what some of his alternatives might be. Some considerations might be the pvc pipe, simple guard stakes, setting something deep and having a secondary pin sticking up, etc. But regardless, I think you are surveying for your client. If he wants some kind of 3" dia steel pipe set in concrete with a cap, by golly set it and charge him for it. It's what he wants to see.
I usually set the pin flush so that if the fence row is eventually cleared up and re-built, the pin might survive.
I place a 4' tall light duty fence post beside of the pin so that the owner or another surveyor can easily find the pin at the base of the fence post.
Usually if they are next to a fence or some other structure, I leave them up 2-4". If they are where someone or some animal could step on or trip over, I'll put them flush with a 4' lath next to the rebar, and then recommend the client place steel fence posts by them.
As usual, it depends.....
The client is paying the tab, set what they want to their requirements as long as they are within the requirements in your state, I can merely recommend what to do.
My normal procedure is to set the top of a monument flush or under grade with a wire flag attached.
I then place a red painted tpost 0.5ft to 1.0 ft away as a guard stake and leaning with the top over the monument.
> I bury an iron for the next surveyor and set a chicken wire rod beside it for the owner.
:good:
Yes, the iron is flush or just below grade. I offer the "guard stake" as an extra. My kids can make a lot of cash hauling and pounding for the older or lazier clients. Win-Win.
PVC Pipes
I ran across this article a while back about cactus wrens and other birds that get into PVC pipes used to mark mining claims throughout the West. The birds get in them and can't get out because they're smooth.
My motto is 'do no harm'. Just putting it out there.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
> I had a conversation with a land owner the other day that got me to thinking. When you guys set an iron pin in or near a fences line (rural not in a subdivision) how much do you leave stick up? He was asking that I leave it up 6 inches so he or anyone could find it again. Said the last a-hole (his words not mine) he had survey one of his farms set the pins down so far that after the first fall of leaves, he couldn't find them again. Are you one of the guys setting them flush or leaving half of a 30 inch pin sticking up? Do you survey for your client or the next surveyor coming behind you?
Below is from the Ohio Administrative Code (rules) with my emphasis added. As I remember the discussions prior to adoption in 1980 the thirty inch length was sufficient to drive the pin/pipe below frost line in most of Ohio. There are those that leave them up around here. However, most drive them flush or just below sod depth and set a guard stake or lath with labeling something like "IP/Property Corner" and ribbon the pin with ribbon extending above ground. I usually walked the property and explained the lath/pin relationship to the client.
>4733-37-03 Monumentation.
>(A) The surveyor shall set boundary monuments so that, upon completion of the survey, each corner of the property and each referenced control station will be physically monumented.
>(B) When it is impossible or impracticable to set a boundary monument on a corner, the surveyor shall set a reference monument, similar in character to the boundary monument and preferably along one of the property lines which intersect at that corner. When such a reference monument is used, it shall be clearly identified as a reference monument on the plat of the property and in any new deed description which may be written for the property.
>(C) Every boundary monument and/or reference monument set by the surveyor shall, when practicable:
>(1) Be composed of a durable material.
>(2) Have a minimum length of thirty inches.
>(3) Have a minimum cross-section area of material of 0.21 square inches.
>(4) Be identified with a durable marker bearing the surveyor’s Ohio registration number and/or name or company name.
>(5) Be detectable with conventional instruments for finding ferrous or magnetic objects.
>(D) When a case arises, due to physical obstructions such as pavements, large rocks, large >roots, utility cables, etc., so that neither a boundary monument nor a reference monument can be conveniently or practicably set in accordance with paragraph (C) of this rule, then alternative monumentation, which is essentially as durable and identifiable (e.g., chiselled “X” in concrete, drill hole, etc.) shall be established for the particular situation.
>R.C. 119.032 review dates: 08/18/2008 and 08/18/2013
>Promulgated Under: 119.03
>Statutory Authority: 4733.07
>Rule Amplifies: 4733.20
>Prior Effective Dates: 5/1/1980; 11/1/2003
Depends
Where a lawn mower could hit them or a kid might fall and impale himself, flush or close to flush with flagging and a guard stake / flag.
Where there is little or no danger, protrude about 4" with flagging and guard stake / flag.
Depends
Around here, rods at the roadside get buried a couple of tenths with a stake or country pole stacked beside it. The bush hog leaves 'em alone. Same goes for residential lawns.
In hedgerows and the, woods I leave them sticking up a couple of tenths and a country pole stacked next to it, but lately I've been switching over to PVC. In a farm field, it gets buried a little deeper to avoid the disc.
If you want a permanent, stable monument, set it flush.
Other options are available upon request.
yeah, we don't have too hard of time locating the ones you've set. I try to do the same. Thank god for the fence ingoring tech. in the new metal detector we bought because some that we've found recently were counter sunk 2-3 tenths. 2000 era surveys so I know they weren't that growed over.
95% of the monuments we set are 5/8" rebar left with 12" sticking out of the ground.