A coworker in another Division dropped by, she knows we are Surveyors. She starts complaining about her neighbor has built a "WALL", she thinks it's on her property. She knows where the old gash was before the sidewalk was replaced and this is in the City of Sacramento (1911 subdivision) where commonly the driveways and backyard garages are very close or on the lot lines (but not always not that she would listen to me). The former fence was a short picket fence she says she built but the neighbor asked her husband (who is not the property owner) if it would be okay to take that down and build a new fence and he said it would be okay (HE'S NOT THE PROPERTY OWNER!!!).
So through some persistent interviewing I weedled out of her that the WALL is actually a 6' board fence which is very common around here. So my coworker Dan gently counsels her to stop calling it a wall, it's not a wall, it's a fence, it affects your credibility. She talking getting a survey and we are saying be careful, boundary litigation is very expensive. She is unhappy because the WALL cut off all of her sunlight (it's a leafy neighborhood, for crying out loud).
So then she says it's on her property she's going to go cut down the fence. We counsel her, don't do that, talk to your neighbor, try to work it out, etc. I feel for the poor neighbor, really. I tell her I have read numerous cases where the property owner cut down the fence and the courts took a very dim view of that, the law is complex and they will find a way to make her life hard. Really, don't cut down your neighbor's fence. I'm telling her it's very reasonable for the neighbor to talk to your husband, she doesn't know he isn't an owner.
She's a bit crazy, we know her pretty well. She's asked us about surveys before, no one is willing to get involved. I can't do it, if I find the fence is on the neighbor's property then she won't be happy, if I find it's on her property the neighbor will naturally think I'm in her corner. Really, I say, it's your home, it's not worth it, try to get along with your neighbors.
I have rarely ran into a property owner that asks, "Where is my property line?"
You're correct, property owners (and occupants) have a preconceived notion as to where their bounds lay. It is almost a primal thing. Most are seeking reassurance that where they "know" (think) the property line should be is actually where a surveyor should mark it. And when shown evidence and facts to the contrary...well, they get primal.
Around my office we call fence disagreements "pecker wars" and avoid them like the plague. My advice to other surveyors is to follow suit. My advice to phone shoppers is to call someone else.
A 6' stockade fence isn't the most friendly thing a neighbor can do. Not so surprising your coworker's hackles are up.
Some years back my neighbor put up a 6' stockade fence about a foot away from the 4' chain link I'd put up. A decade later I have the satisfaction of watching that fence start to fall down while my chain link is still going strong.
Around here the disputes usually start when the surveyor records a map showing the fence 0.4' over the line...
Mark Mayer, post: 364661, member: 424 wrote: A 6' stockade fence isn't the most friendly thing a neighbor can do.
This seems to be a regional thing. When I've visited relatives in parts of Kansas, all I saw was 4' chain link fences, if there were fences at all. Around here a 6' board fence is the norm, so much so that any other kind of fence -- or lack of same -- is very unusual.
Hijack: I'm dealing with one in my own backyard at the moment:
It was cheaply built around 1995 (a year before we bought the place), but I just don't have the motivation to replace the whole thing right now, so I've replaced the first of two rotted-off posts and will refit the fence panels to it. I left the concrete in the ground and laboriously removed the remains of the old post. I discovered the reason that one rotted: they installer concreted the bottom of the hole as well as the sides, effectively creating a bathtub for the post to sit in. I broke through the bottom with a digging bar, so at least now it'll drain. I had to rout about 1/6" off all sides of the new post, but then it slipped right in. A little anchor cement slurry around the edges tightened it up.
I raised the panels up last night, and this is where the whole mess sits until I get some more time to finish the attachment:
Jim Frame, post: 364693, member: 10 wrote: This seems to be a regional thing. When I've visited relatives in parts of Kansas, all I saw was 4' chain link fences, if there were fences at all. Around here a 6' board fence is the norm, so much so that any other kind of fence -- or lack of same -- is very unusual.
Hijack: I'm dealing with one in my own backyard at the moment:
It was cheaply built around 1995 (a year before we bought the place), but I just don't have the motivation to replace the whole thing right now, so I've replaced the first of two rotted-off posts and will refit the fence panels to it. I left the concrete in the ground and laboriously removed the remains of the old post. I discovered the reason that one rotted: they installer concreted the bottom of the hole as well as the sides, effectively creating a bathtub for the post to sit in. I broke through the bottom with a digging bar, so at least now it'll drain. I had to rout about 1/6" off all sides of the new post, but then it slipped right in. A little anchor cement slurry around the edges tightened it up.
I raised the panels up last night, and this is where the whole mess sits until I get some more time to finish the attachment:
My neighbor just replaced my rear fence, about halfway across (I have two neighbors behind me). He talked to me on Friday and it happened on Monday. The guy did a cheap job, two stringers, no hardware. At least he used pressure treated posts. My half is less than it would cost me to buy quality fence material at Berco Redwood.
My two side fences were done by a neighborhood contractor. That guy did quality work, he used hardware and three stringers plus the wood looks a lot better than the Home Cheapo stuff.
But it's cheap. I think the posts will last. Maybe I'll move before it becomes a problem. But toe-screwed stringers will work loose in a few years.
The old fence was about 5' tall, solid for 4' with a decorative 1' band on top. It was the original fence from 1955 according to the original owner neighbor (he's deceased now). My wife was happy when it was replaced with the higher 6' fence, solid all the way up. That's what she wants.
Dave Karoly, post: 364658, member: 94 wrote: She's a bit crazy, we know her pretty well. She's asked us about surveys before, no one is willing to get involved.
Dave,
Here is a photo for your new book...
The Arkansas Highway Department is expanding the ROW of Highway 5 between Little Rock and the City of Benton. Rumor has it that a Surveyor shared his field lunch with a puppy...
(I think the car under the cover is a 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 Two Door Hardtop Coupe...but what would I know...)
DDSM
Jim Frame, post: 364693, member: 10 wrote: This seems to be a regional thing. When I've visited relatives in parts of Kansas, all I saw was 4' chain link fences, if there were fences at all.
I noticed the same thing when visiting Aberdeen South Dakota a few years ago. In fact I was in a local park that was surrounded by a neighborhood and around 5 pm families started coming out of their houses and walking through their neighbors fenceless back yards to go to the community pool within the park. Who needs Big Brother to plan for common areas; citizens can do it on their own. Jp
As an admirer of the great sailing ships, I salute our choice of rigging to pull that fence upright. I used a come-along to do the identical thing a few years back.
Covenants preventing the erection of boundary line fences is one of the greatest ideas ever conceived for subdivisions.
BajaOR, post: 364705, member: 9139 wrote: I salute our choice of rigging to pull that fence upright.
That's an el-cheapo block and tackle I use for lifting my Honda generator into and out of the truck. The generator only weighs about 95 pounds, but I only weight 135, and my back wasn't very happy about the dead lift arrangement. I liked the block and tackle so much that I bought another one that's permanently installed in my garage for raising and lowering a rack where I store extra 2-meter tripods.
thebionicman, post: 364689, member: 8136 wrote: Around here the disputes usually start when the surveyor records a map showing the fence 0.4' over the line...
At least they got a survey. It seems like even more often, someone does something without a survey where they "know" the property line is, and the neighbor "knows" better.
It seems like the best thing someone could do is talk to their neighbor and possibly even agree to share the cost of having their common line surveyed, and build the fence where it should go.
It's a lot akin to buying a used car and not having it looked @ by a mechanic until after you own it "as is".
I wonder if the lady above said anything to the neighbor while the fence was going up? It's kind of a bad idea to watch an improvement go up on your own property and not saying something right away.
What's a hoot is when that one property corner you really just have to have is sandwiched between a 6' privacy fence and a 5' chain link fence constructed a half foot apart and somebody is going to have to contort themselves into a pretzel to try to reach in there to clean out the 20 years of detritus fallen into the no-man's land to get the shot. Just about the time everyone is in position, the neighbor turns out their 120 lb. Rottweiler in the yard.
No thanks. Been there, done that.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
When I bought a house (which I no longer own), the 6' tall board fences were 20+ years old and ready to fall over if you looked at them sideways. I spoke with my neighbors (one along side me one behind me, I had a corner lot) and told them that I was going to rebuild the fence. I asked if they wanted to share the cost (I was going to do it anyway, but if they wanted to help). Both neighbors were very agreeable. One cut me a check for half of the cost of our common fence. The other paid for half of the materials and sent his two sons out to help with the demo and rebuilding of the new fence.
During my planning, I found the existing monuments along the street and at the back corner (about 0.2' from the existing fence post). We tore down the old fence and removed the concrete from around the old posts. But, before pulling the back corner post, I carefully offset the monument with some swing ties to the conveniently located concrete pad in my neighbor's yard. We set that post off of the corner (inline to the north) and after I dumped the wet concrete into the hole, I swung the rear corner back into location, set firmly in the concrete around the post (again, about 0.2' from the post). The we all went along building the fence along the boundary. Everyone was happy with the fence and now, no one involved with the building of the fence that would last 20 more years lives in those homes any more.
As they say, good fences (and fence building) make for good neighbors.
When I rebuilt the fence on the south side of my lot (the one in the photos is on the north), I used steel U-channel posts and 3 stringers on edge. I ran a string line from one end to the other (about 104') to set the posts, and since the lot is basically flat from one end to the other, I used a level to level the board tops. It's the straightest, levelest fence I've ever seen. Now almost 13 years old, it shows no signs of tipping or sagging. It was a ton of work, though, and I don't relish the idea of doing the same on the north side.
It's very nice when you can just run a string line between range poles placed radial to the corner markers. That's what we did with the latest fence we built. We also used metal posts instead of wood this time. Straightest fence I've ever seen. Bang on the properly line. The last fence lasted 30 years. I expect the new one to last 50 years (i.e., longer than me).
Williwaw, post: 364785, member: 7066 wrote: What's a hoot is when that one property corner you really just have to have is sandwiched between a 6' privacy fence and a 5' chain link fence constructed a half foot apart and somebody is going to have to contort themselves into a pretzel to try to reach in there to clean out the 20 years of detritus fallen into the no-man's land to get the shot. Just about the time everyone is in position, the neighbor turns out their 120 lb. Rottweiler in the yard.
No thanks. Been there, done that.
That is the one thing I don't miss about doing residential surveys. The corner is always in one of the other neighbor's backyard, arrrgh.
Dave Karoly, post: 364812, member: 94 wrote: The corner is always in one of the other neighbor's backyard, arrrgh.
Dave,
A MONUMENT may be in one of the neighbor's backyard...(the fence post may be the CORNER).
😉
DDSM:beer::beer:
Jim Frame, post: 364806, member: 10 wrote: When I rebuilt the fence on the south side of my lot (the one in the photos is on the north), I used steel U-channel posts and 3 stringers on edge. I ran a string line from one end to the other (about 104') to set the posts, and since the lot is basically flat from one end to the other, I used a level to level the board tops. It's the straightest, levelest fence I've ever seen. Now almost 13 years old, it shows no signs of tipping or sagging. It was a ton of work, though, and I don't relish the idea of doing the same on the north side.
Yeah, fence building isn't for just anyone. I used a string line as well for my posts. I set the back corner (splitting the boundary) and ran the string along one edge of the post to a point off of the front lot corner monument (half width of a post) so they would all line up. I had my level out to keep the top rail level.
Funny story about that, I set the level at the height of the top rail that I wanted so I could just sight across the posts and cut them to the correct height. I established my elevation at the back corner of the lot (the highest point) and then turned that out to the front. My brother (not a surveyor) saw where I was directing my friend to mark the far post for cutting and immediately claimed that I was an idiot and that my fence would be nowhere near level. I stepped back from the level and looked at him and said, "I have a 100 dollar bill in my pocket right now that says I'm right and training in this field to prove it. If you can prove me wrong, you can have the $100. Care to take that bet?" He didn't say anything more after that.
Williwaw, post: 364785, member: 7066 wrote: What's a hoot is when that one property corner you really just have to have is sandwiched between a 6' privacy fence and a 5' chain link fence constructed a half foot apart and somebody is going to have to contort themselves into a pretzel to try to reach in there to clean out the 20 years of detritus fallen into the no-man's land to get the shot. Just about the time everyone is in position, the neighbor turns out their 120 lb. Rottweiler in the yard.
No thanks. Been there, done that.
I've dug laterally under a fence for as much as a foot to expose the top of a survey monument. Then widen out the hole so I can set a couple of swing ties (maybe 1.5 to 2.0 feet away) and then taken shots on the swing ties. This doesn't always work, but it does keep me away from the neighbor's dogs.