I have a project which has an existing house near a river. In 2014, FEMA issued a new FIS & maps that raised the BFE about a foot or so. As a result, the LAG at one end of the house is now about 3 inches below the BFE, and the homeowners were forced to buy flood insurance.
The owner wants to place some fill around the foundation and get a LOMR-F. My question is: how much higher than the BFE does the new fill need to be above the BFE and how far out does it have to extend?
Since there is very little room here to provide compensatory flood storage, I would like to keep the fill volume as small as possible. I was thinking a tenth or two above the BFE at the foundation, and extending that out a few feet (2'? 5?) We could literally place a few shovelfuls of dirt against the foundation and meet the requirements, but that seems questionable to me. I was wondering if anyone here has experience with something like this.
The owner thinks that the Conservation Commission will waive compensation, and maybe they will for the existing house, but he is also proposing a new garage/shop building that will have the same problem...
Another question on the same project: the floodplain line runs under his deck, which has a bed of crushed stone (maybe 3/4" to 1 1/2") under it. For FEMA flood insurance purposes, can I assume that I should shoot the top of the stone for the LAG in this area? (As opposed to the soil grade under the stone).
The fill would need to be at or above the BFE, a couple tenths to be safe sounds like a good plan. Not really sure as to how far it would need to extend, it has to be stable. Is the house in the Regulatory Floodway?
As for the deck, the LAG would be next to the supports for the deck, not the ground under it. And yes, I would certainly use the top of the stone as grade.
No, it's no where near the floodway. The ground is pretty flat - maybe about 2% slope.
For the stone, I was concerned about the grade under the deck near the house foundation - I may need to raised the grade there. Thanks for your answer about the stone!
You might consider calling the material LANDSCAPING and not Fill.
;-)DDSM:beer:
Wouldn't any material placed to raise the ground above the BFE be regarded as fill for the purposes of obtaining a LOMA?
I'm definitely not an expert, but I've done a few ECs. For that deck, is it attached to the house? My understanding is that if it is "free standing" (i.e. not physically attached to the house) you don't have to deal with it to determine whether or not a house needs flood insurance.
Unfortunately, the deck is very much attached.
The outer deck posts are 2 or 3 inches below the BFE, so I'll have to shoot the stone underneath to see where the flood plain is. To make it fun, there is lattice almost all the way around.
Hmmm.... if the LAG at the house foundation under the deck is above the BFE, I wonder if I can just place a small amount of stone around each deck post to raise them out of the flood plain and not worry about the rest of the area under the deck?
I had a client with the same situation, and was told by our (Vermont) Rivers Management people - who act in an advisory capacity to the municipalities on all things FEMA - that for a LOMA-F, the lowest floor (i.e. basement) must be raised to above BFE. So the placement of fill against the foundation to raise the LAG would not qualify. This seems to make sense in light of the requirement for a "regular" LOMA that the LAG be on "original ground", per FEMA's definition the ground that existed when the first flood study was done for that location. But if your on a frost wall with the floor above the BFE....
Actually, this house happens to have a crawlspace with a concrete slab that is 0.2' above the BFE!
Per FEMA:
LOMR-F Requests Involving One or More Structures: For a LOMR-F to be issued by FEMA to remove the structure from the SFHA, the NFIP regulations require that the lowest adjacent grade of the structure be at or above the BFE. The participating community must also determine that the land and any existing or proposed structures to be removed from the SFHA are "reasonably safe from flooding."
Seems the only way that there could be a requirement that the lowest floor be above the BFE is if the community is using that as criterion to meet the "reasonably safe from flooding" requirement. Seems wrong headed to say that the LAG above the BFE requirement for LOMAs would change just because it is based on fill. If the water won't get to the structure, why does the elevation of the bottom floor matter?
?ÿHi Folks,?ÿ
?ÿ
Running into a similar situation. We bought a property and it sits on AE flood zone. The property itself is on it and some of the yard on the 500 year. On our case our LAG is about 8'' below BFE. Adding fill and?ÿ applying for a LMR-F would be the way to go? Its a house with a basement and was built in 1955. Any help from you guys would be greatly appreciated. The flood insurance is a big deal as its $2k a year but the real problem we are facing is the FEMA 50% rule on renovations.?ÿ
?ÿ
Thanks
Doug
Were you able to get this project done and how did it go??ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿI have a project which has an existing house near a river. In 2014, FEMA issued a new FIS & maps that raised the BFE about a foot or so. As a result, the LAG at one end of the house is now about 3 inches below the BFE, and the homeowners were forced to buy flood insurance.
The owner wants to place some fill around the foundation and get a LOMR-F. My question is: how much higher than the BFE does the new fill need to be above the BFE and how far out does it have to extend?
Since there is very little room here to provide compensatory flood storage, I would like to keep the fill volume as small as possible. I was thinking a tenth or two above the BFE at the foundation, and extending that out a few feet (2'? 5?) We could literally place a few shovelfuls of dirt against the foundation and meet the requirements, but that seems questionable to me. I was wondering if anyone here has experience with something like this.
The owner thinks that the Conservation Commission will waive compensation, and maybe they will for the existing house, but he is also proposing a new garage/shop building that will have the same problem...
Another question on the same project: the floodplain line runs under his deck, which has a bed of crushed stone (maybe 3/4" to 1 1/2") under it. For FEMA flood insurance purposes, can I assume that I should shoot the top of the stone for the LAG in this area? (As opposed to the soil grade under the stone).
?ÿ
Educate me.?ÿ If a house has all floors and equipment above BFE, why is LAG significant?
Hi Bill,?ÿ
All floors are indeed above BFE but it has a basement where machinery is placed. Although I do not plan to finish the basement. All of this is very new to us.
?ÿ
Doug
If you're in Montana we are experiencing a above 100 year event. You're too late for flood insurance and behind sand bagging. I'm anxious to see how my EC come out.?ÿ
Educate me.?ÿ If a house has all floors and equipment above BFE, why is LAG significant?
An insurance company is interested in anything that can create a claim...
If you have a deck support, in a potential flood way, and a piece of debris floats by and takes out the deck; you will be filing a claim.
?ÿ
We are all very new to this and if there is something that I can do to get out would be huge for us. The 50% on reno is whats killing us. We were wondering if adding the 8" to raise the LAG and apply to get the house out of the flood zone.?ÿ
?ÿ
Doug
Don't sign off on anything that is easy to debate and you lose. ?ÿA few hundred bucks doesn't help much if you have to spend $10,000 later. ?ÿJust saying'. ?ÿ
This is what we are trying to find out as to what we should do. If that's something we can actually do in order to apply. I want to do it the right way and not try to "get away with it" type deal. We are just trying to make sense of it all. I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject and trying to determine what would be the best solution.
?ÿ
Doug
When the high water comes (and it will) you will be the reason the foolish landowners dropped their flood insurance and they now have many tens of thousands of uninsured damages. ?ÿSomeone (other than them) must be at fault and you are at the top of the list of potential culprits.
