GNSS Post processing software

> However, I didn't like reading about what Trimble did to its TGO customers, and at some point I will be making an investment in better hardware, and at this point have been very impressed with the Javad offerings. Does anyone use Giodis ($5,900) or Justin ($3,500) by Javad? These are fairly pricey options. I searched this forum for "Giodis" and "Justin" but couldn't find a match. Makes me think no one is using this software, and I don't want to be the guinea pig.
>

I have the Justin software from Javad. I purchased it about 2 or 3 years ago when Javad's new stuff came out. At that time it wasn't the easiest software to use. I was able to successfully post-process my own data...though I never "got good at it". I'm sure I'll catch heat for this, but I'm more of an OPUS / RTK guy.
If we're somewhere w/o control the crew sets the base up, collect static data, and then shoots everything RTK for the day (aside from a few other OPUS points if necessary). I suppose it'd be better to do my own post processing, but for what we do, our system works just fine.
I imagine the Justin software is a lot better now...as they were updating it about once a month last I checked. Learning the in's and out's is on my to-do list. Customer support isn't Javad's strong suit...you seem like a smart guy though...I'm sure you could figure it out.

Hello,

If you have clean data, I would say that most post-processing software solutions will yield satisfactory results. For questionable baselines that require in-depth analysis, it is nice to have a powerful post-processing software. Many of these software solutions by the large manufacturers are limited in tools available for the user in that regards.

Glad to know there are users of the Justin software. How do you like your Javad equipment? Did you buy the Triumph-VS? Looks like an amazing piece of hardware.

Big Al,

This is not the first time Trimble had shafted its software users. Back in the days before RTK, Trimble's TrimVec and then GPSurvey ruled the world of manufactures software. GPSurvey was and extremely robust processor, capable of working both large and long networks. With the advent of RTK they added Trimble Survey Office (TSO) to the fold. TGO was supposed to replace them both. If I recall correctly I had to purchase TGO even though I had a current service contract since it was a new software product. TGO never held a candle to GPSurvey, it could never handle the long line stuff and had several problems with seldom used features that Trimble was aware of but never bothered to fix. Their solution to the long line issue was to give anyone who had had a current GPSurvey service agreement a copy of Trimble Total Control (TTC) if they knew to ask for it. TTC, formerly GeoGenius, was a very powerful processing engine but it was almost impossible to extract data from and Trimble only had one person capable of helping anyone with it.

The lack of software support was one reason I went all green a couple of years ago.

Georges,

I have seen on earlier posts of yours that you had recommended a software by Novatel called GrafNav/GrafNet (Waypoint Software). Is that the kind of software that you would characterize as having "powerful post-processing"? There was some discussion about that software being temporarily reduced in price from $6500 to $3000, but I checked with NovaTel last night and it looks like the price of that software is back at $6500 unless I missed something.

Al

> The lack of software support was one reason I went all green a couple of years ago.

John Deere or Javad?

> Glad to know there are users of the Justin software. How do you like your Javad equipment? Did you buy the Triumph-VS? Looks like an amazing piece of hardware.

Javad makes awesome stuff...honestly...I'm not a Ford or Chevy guy...could care less...whatever works...(though a Ford Raptor is on my wishlist if anyone's looking for gift ideas).

Anyway, I have these super expensive Trimble R8 models 3's, and no word of lie, the crews routinely argue over who get the Javads. They are lightning fast, lock in where the Trimbles won't, and the Carlson Software is much easier than that Trimble Access stuff. Plus for less than 20G's you get 2 Javad heads and a 35watt radio (that's the cost of 1 Trimble head). The only reason we even have the Trimbles is because we run S6 robots and I like the integrated surveying feature of Access. That and the Trimble R8's work better on the VRS network...

As far as the VS...I'd like to try it...looks more like urban equipment...we work in Rural PA where a 12' rod height to set a stake is not uncommon...but like I said before, the VS will have its uses...I'll let you know if I ever get my hands on one.

Hello,

I do not know about any of the exact prices of the solutions sold on the market.

Indeed GrafNav/GrafNet is a powerful post-processing software (as well as network adjustment). I am amazed at the amount of routines, QC tools and information available to the user to inspect and process the data. Very detailed.

I've just contacted Novatel, and they've confirmed that the special $3000 option to purchase the GravNav/GravNet software is available for the next 30 days, and I'm going to obtain an evaluation copy from them to try in the meantime. The regular price of this software is $6500. I would be interested to know in what ways this software might be a better value than purchasing an L1/L2 key for the Ashtech GNSS Solutions software.

I see that Carlson has a Post Processing engine called SurvGNSS. It lists for $4900. Anyone using it? Carlson has a great reputation for customer service. And, they seem to be interested in compatibility with older equipment.

A few months ago, when the s**t hit the fan with TGO, I saw a number of users that were trying TBC (Jim Frame, Kent McMillan, John Minor, etc). Looked like a number of users were having problems getting the software to work. Were those problems resolved? Have many Trimble customers now migrated to TBC, and is the new solution working for them?

I use Leica's LGO and the GrafNav/GrafNet package.

GrafNav/GrafNet is a GNSS software only, no terrestrial data, etc. They have a ton of options to tweak for problem data sets, more QC reports than most will ever use AND the best support of any software I own. I use this software mostly of PPK data sets, BEST in the world for PPK.

Because it is a dedicated GNSS software it is purpose driven, it post processes GNSS data very well. They are able to read just about ALL native receiver formats and if NGS has a calibrated antenna for your receiver, then they have and antenna model for that. They are owned by NovAtel now, but up until maybe five years ago they were an independent small software company operating on their own in Calgary.

I use the LGO for processing static data primarily from my Leica receivers and it is very good too and has decent QC tools also, many of which most users probably don't know about or use. The Leica LSQ adjustment module is an OEM version from Move3 which builds a good LSQ software.

For third party LSQ software it would be either Move3 or Columbus. Columbus appears to be very good from users I have talked to, has current relevant updates and very good support, even if you don't own their product. I just asked the developer to implement support for IGS08 via their free online utility that will read in OPUS XML files and output an adjusted position, less than a week later, DONE. I don't even own any software from them!

What I am learning in the software world, is that often the best product comes from smaller companies with a dedicated focus to their small product range, usually much more responsive on support and updates, etc. Waypoint is fairly small as is Columbus and yet from what I can see they have better support than the big boys.

That may be more than $0.02 worth!

SHG

> A few months ago, when the s**t hit the fan with TGO, I saw a number of users that were trying TBC (Jim Frame, Kent McMillan, John Minor, etc). Looked like a number of users were having problems getting the software to work. Were those problems resolved? Have many Trimble customers now migrated to TBC, and is the new solution working for them?

TBC is Trimble software.

TBC works for me... I am quite happy with it.

Yes, I understand that. Trimble TBC is not out of the question for me. But, to lay out $3K for this software, I'm going to need to be persuaded that its a good value.

Thanks, Shelby. I am with you on the nature of smaller software companies, at least with respect to highly specialized applications like GNSS post processing, least squares network adjustment, etc. To write good code for an application like this, the author needs to be fundamentally well versed in how it is properly done.

There are very few people with the level of understanding of both the computational elements AND the associated programming skills that will be able to bring a good product to the market. That person or persons, I believe, need to have direct financial incentive tied to the success of the software, in order for a truly excellent solution to result. It is natural for smaller companies to excel in this area.

Sounds like the GrafNav/GrafNet product is a very capable piece of software. And, I'm gathering that it might be particularly well suited for post processing of kinematic surveys.

At the moment, I'm at a point on the learning curve where I want to get comfortable with static work before migrating to kinematic work, and for that reason, I believe purchasing this product may be premature for me.

Although I am still learning all the ins and outs, I have so far found TBC to be a great processor-it successfully processes data that from this summer (afternoon data) that TGO was not getting good results on. Now that I am able to work with the output (I had to change some of my custom software), I am happy with TBC. As I mentioned, I was planning on switching, I just needed a reason...

I am now convinced that the processing engine in TBC is superior to that in TGO (which was an excellent processor).

And they tend to have an amusing sense of humour at times...

I remember with Hypack hydrographic software years ago, when a 7-parameters transformation was performed; the software would show the results with this introductory sentence:

"The Shaman has spoken"

Funny...but makes you wonder "can I trust these numbers?".

Hypack is a bigger company now, they probably asked the programmer to re-write the line.

Sorry. Misunderstood your post. We have migrated to TBC and although I am not totally comfortable with it yet, I do see where I could grow to like it better than TGO.