GIS

Just tell him there is a $500 fine for not getting approval from the
local surveyor's association.

Good Luck on that, they are the government.

A few years ago I got an email from the town GIS Monkey saying my survey was wrong and needed to be corrected because it did not match his GIS. The screen print he sent me was so wrong I will not take space here to address it. I called him up identified myself and the job in question, I then said, "May I have your New York State Land Surveyor's License Number and date of issue." There was silence. Next I said, "If I ever hear from you anything even close to what you sent me again I will be making two phone calls first to the County District Attorney and second to the State Attorney General. Dud, practicing Land Surveying in this state without a license is a Class E Felony." More silence, end of phone call and end of problem.

:good:

I take issue with the maps that have the disclaimer that they are for planning purposes only, then they are used for regulatory purposes.

The public doesn't understand that. The disclaimer should be " in no way are these a survey or represent property boundaries".

Awesome.

I am sure we all see it where some GIS person tells someone they have an issue because GIS say so. It is sad that money has to be spend to correct their misunderstanding of what they are working with.

Guns don't kill people..people do

It seems that this post as well as others target GIS as the enemy. Remember that many Surveyors let GIS get away from us.

We can complain day and night about how foolish those GIS folks are or we can get involved and stop these problems.

GIS doesn't make people assume wrong things, it's the wrong people doing the right things with technology. We need to get more involved before it's too late.

I'm just saying..

Guns don't kill people..people do

I have to agree with StLSurveyor. Having been involved with GIS since the days when it was often called Computer Mapping I watched as the surveying community (in general) let it slip away and didn't even wave goodbye Even when surveyors created the Geographic and Land Information Society (GLIS) specifically designed to engage surveyors to help educate GISers surveyors stayed away in droves. GIS is now a fundamental part of virtually every municipal, county, state, and federal agency as well as multitudes of private sector companies. While there are any number of surveyors who have stepped up to be a part of GIS development the vast majority have not. A simple visit to an ESRI international users conference will show where things stand. Even in a bad economy with very limited federal government participation they still draw in excess of 12,000 attendees - when was the last time we saw a surveying event in this country with even 1,000 attending? The bottom line is that everything is about place and how places and things relate. As individuals and groups (state associations) surveyors need to be proactive and become a part of the process. As an example, in February 2013, the Maryland Society of Surveyors became a sponsor of the Maryland State Geographic Information Committee (MSGIC). Every member of MSS is now also a member of MSGIC and entitled to attend their meetings as well as suggest and present surveying related topics at their events. Progress will likely be slow as there are way more GISers than surveyors and that trend is likely to continue, but if we act in collaboration, support the activities of organizations like GLIS, develop local and national strategies with organizations like NSPS then I think there is a very good chance we can contribute to the improvement of the collection, analysis, distribution and use of geospatial data to best support the vast array of needs for our communities and the country. Just my 2 cents worth.

When I get a call that mentions "Well... the GIS shows..." I usually let them finish and then tell them very nicely that the GIS is for general information purposes only, and that my house is shown over the line on my county's GIS and I'm 100% sure that it is not like that in real life, and that the line shown on said GIS is off by almost 20 feet. That usually calms them down and then we can move on from there.

Carl

It's amazing

Just how wrong GIS information can be. Almost like they turned it over to a kindergarten class to put it together with crayons. Tried to help out the local ones as best as we could, but they didn't listen. The other issue is there are competing "official" GIS data bases out there. That really messes stuff up

The local appraisal district maps are a kmz file over Google Earth and the hard copies that many land owners get are full of disclaimers.

There are too many errors on those maps to list.

Anyone providing and distributing GIS info and maps should do the same.

I can understand why an individual would think a line on a governmental or taxing authority map would define a boundary.

FWIW, I believe the accuracy of any GIS product depends upon who is in control of the mouse and keyboard.

0.02

> FWIW, I believe the accuracy of any GIS product depends upon who is in control of the mouse and keyboard.
>
> 0.02

True, but the "accuracy" of the GIS is title vs. boundary. When you pull up data from a datasheet it should be giving you correct ownership information, and possibly approximate coordinates to show where in the neighborhood the parcel is. The accuracy of the boundaries on the GIS may get more and more "accurate" mathematically through time, but it does not provide boundary information. But, I agree, that is hard to explain. I think a lot of us even have trouble with "title vs. boundary" being two different animals.

Guns don't kill people..people do

i think it's a little bit of wishful thinking to suggest that the surveying community somehow "let it get away from us". having taken several classes in GIS about a decade ago at a school that already had a huge department and was keen on getting much bigger, it was clear to me then that the application of GIS was so enormous that survey data not only wouldn't constitute an iota of the information, but also registered accordingly in terms of the desired application of the platform.

GIS, in virtually every practical application i use on a regular basis, is about as accurate with any of its information as it tends to be with survey related data. the point of it seems to be (again, just from my observation) not quality of information, but quantity. it's been a guidepost at best- something to tell me where something is generally located, maybe where i might look to figure out who owns it, how many people might occupy that data point, what the possible breakdown in hair color types is for that distribution of people, how many of them lean toward chinese food and/or jazz music, where nearby historical monuments may be, the nearest library, etc, etc.

in short, the old adage applies: GIS is an inch deep and a mile wide. does that mean it couldn't contain accurate info? no way. but it strikes me that it never was intended to do so, at least in wide-scale, public-oriented applications.

i've had the GIS talk with clients more times than i can count. and i always put it this way: "if GIS is so good, then why are you hiring us?" usually that turns on a lightbulb.

Hey, they have the neighbor across the street owning my house. But, even after all this time I still get the tax bill each year-in my name. 😉

While some GIS professionals know less about mapping than they should, calling them a "GIS Monkey" doesn't help a discussion that needs to happen: to educate both surveyors and GIS professional about the value each brings to the public.

Yes, most GIS basemaps and associated geodatabase "sandwiches" are not as locationally accurate as most survey products, for several very important reasons:

1 - Appropriate accuracy depends upon use or purpose. There is no specific level of locational accuracy that is automatically "accurate," it depends upon what you need to do with the locational information.

2 - The purpose of GIS databases is not to demarcate the authoritative location of boundaries, fixed works or the Earth's terrain. The purpose is to combine and analyze a myriad of location-based features (from boundaries to fire hydrants to watersheds to census/economic characteristics to traffic counts to crime events, to imagery to ... thousands more), in order to understand their interrelationships. This wide array of mapped features come from a multitude of sources, collected by different people at different times with different purposes and (most importantly) differing budgets. GIS databases attempt to merge these all together in a coherent manner recognized by people. That means it is more important for features that are roughly aligned to look coincident that to portray them with thousands of little sliver polygons between them. If you need to know the "official," "legal," "authoritative" location of a feature, by all means Get It Surveyed. But if you was to see clearly how it all fits together, Get It Geoanalyzed.

3 - That said, GIS professionals have a responsibility to clearly exhibit adequate disclaimers about their maps, including the relative accuracy of the composited mapped features (which would be equal to the least accurate theme-layer of feature types).

4 - And this is where Surveyors can be of significant assistance: helping to determine the locational accuracy of each and every map-theme layer.

So, dear Surveyors, quit fighting your GIS brothers, and help solve the real problems:
Help us determine the actual locational accuracy of GIS map layers, and
Help us to adjust all GIS map layers according to recognized geodetic control, and do it in such a way that the GIS maps still look coherent and understandable to non-mapping professionals who "just need to know where it is" without a lot of technical hyperstructure.

GIS is not about maps.

It is a geospatial database used to make decisions.

High accuracy is not necessarily needed.

The Assessor is just keeping track of who owns which parcel and their addresses. A lot of times the aerials don't line up with the AP map cartoon.

> While some GIS professionals know less about mapping than they should, calling them a "GIS Monkey" doesn't help ...
When someone from a GIS department calls a surveyor to tell him that his survey was wrong and needed to be corrected because it did not match his GIS, that person has earned the title "GIS Monkey".