Our local city government has an ordinance against parcels smaller than 10 acres within the watershed of our municipal water reservoir. The process to create a 10 acre tract from a larger parcel requires a number of hoops to jump through. It is basically the same process a developer has to endure to create a subdivision. Lots of committees' reviews and buckets of BS.
The city also requires drainage easements to be dedicated along minor creeks and future drive locations to be confined within roadway sight distance criteria. If any of the area is within a FEMA flood prone area, ALL of that area is declared a Water Quality Protection Zone which further limits the owner's ability to freely enjoy his land. All of this boils down to a 6 or 7K cost to a property owner that wants to sell a 10 acres site. This is all aggravated further with the fact the County will not allow a deed of smaller than 40 acres to be recorded with the City's approval.
I had a gent come to sometime back that was frustrated with the process. He owns and operates a small family dairy on 80 acres that is on the very edge of the City limits. His desire was to give his son 10 acres for a homesite. The cost of the whole mess was prohibitive. He was astounded when I showed him the cost of the last one I had completed.
BUT....he found the right guy for the job when he walked through my door... B-)
I surveyed his property and prepared a description and drawing of his son's 10 acres-to-be. I then prepared a description for him to convey the N/2 of his 80 acres to his son (40 acres, thus recorded by the County).
A month later I prepared a document for the son to Quit Claim back to his father 70 acres. (Also larger than 40 acres, thus recorded by the County). This left the son with a net holding of the 10 acres.
The last hurdle was for the son to grant a mortgage to the bank on his 10 acres. Being less than a 40 acre tract, we were unsure if the County would record it. My bet was the County Clerk wouldn't think twice since it was only a mortgage, not a conveyance.
It flew. Son got his 10 acres, Bank got their mortgage, and the City wasn't even consulted. Pops keeps his 70 acres WITHOUT all the drainage easements and WQPZ crap.
surveyor - 1
City Hall - 0
😉
I love it!
Have done that several times here. Splitting off and building on anything under 5 acres (in the city) requires a "subdivision", to which are attached a few unreasonable, extremely costly and moronic requirements. There are quite a few 5 acre sales, subsequent building and occupancy permits issued, then transfers of 4 - 4.5 acres back to the original owner.
The more government dreams up ridiculous and burdensome regulations, the more
resourceful and creative some people get.
Creative thinking at its finest! That’s worth 3 “attaboy’s” B-)
Wait until he tries to get a building permit and septic permits . Around here the City or County will stop the building process if you try that until recorded to their liking . They probably will not catch on though.
> Wait until he tries to get a building permit and septic permits .
It might have been well for sonny to take care of building permits during the one month interregnum when he owned 40 acres.
:good: :good: :good:
Enjoy the good times while they last.
The Auditor's Office (self appointed parcel police) around here would put the ki·bosh on that deal. Quite frustrating.
It seems that the red tape winds are blowing strong across our fine nation, and just getting worse.
I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually required the 10ac to be platted before issuing a building permit. Lately, I have also seen some cities require rezoning on 10ac parcels from ag to residential in order to build a house on it.
What happens 50 years down the road when the current owner dies and his 4 heirs want to split the land 4 ways into four 1.25 acre lots? Will the city tell the probate court that they can't do that? I surveyed a 50' X 150' lot once that had been sliced and diced for 2 generations. It was a corner lot so they all had access. The first generation got 3 50' X 50' lots. One member of the first generation had passed leaving his 50' X 50' lot to his 2 children. Fortunately we found the origional corners and the lot was a little bit over sized becasue everyone had to have the same amount of land and they would not have accepted 1 square inch less than their part.
This is the type of infringement on property rights that should be resisted. If an agency is going to restrict the land usage in an area, they should pay each existing property owner for the damages that they are creating. This would have made a good court challenge, as you had a Father giving his Son the property. Are you a little concerned that the County may make a complaint or accuse you of helping someone circumvent the development process? Just asking, some municipalities have ordinances about this.
Good
:good:
Around here, that would have been fine, except they would at some point claim that you have created an illegal parcel and would not issue any permits for anything until the parcel was made "legal".
> I surveyed his property and prepared a description and drawing of his son's 10 acres-to-be. I then prepared a description for him to convey the N/2 of his 80 acres to his son (40 acres, thus recorded by the County).
>
> A month later I prepared a document for the son to Quit Claim back to his father 70 acres. (Also larger than 40 acres, thus recorded by the County). This left the son with a net holding of the 10 acres.
>
So the quitclaim was a blatant circumvention of the agency's subdivision ordinances. And you're culpable for advising them as to this lawless tact in addition to the preparation of the documents used therein.
Pardon me if I don't give any atta-boys, as I am completely opposed to those who purposefully break the law, and am amazed at those stupid enough to then brag about it. I don't know about your state, but in mine, this would be grounds for losing one's license and is something I would have no problem reporting to the board.
"Pardon me if I don't give any atta-boys, as I am completely opposed to those who purposefully break the law,..."
Break the law :-S
Enlighten me. 😉
Curious if anyone has seen the use of condominium plats in their area to circumvent some of these types of platting issues. Here the use of a condo plat takes the platting authorities completely out of the approval process. Granted, it is not my area of expertise.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
"Illegal Parcel"
> Around here, that would have been fine, except they would at some point claim that you have created an illegal parcel and would not issue any permits for anything until the parcel was made "legal".
That was a couple of years ago I was accused by the City of creating an "illegal parcel"...
I had a client that owned twenty acre tract that the FmHA only accepted 5 acres for mortgage purposes. I wrote a description for 5 acres around the house..with a 50' wide access to the section line.
The city has a 150' frontage minimum in that particular zoning and they threw a fit.
I told them it didn't matter anyway since the 5ac. was less than their 10ac. minimum. I also told them if anybody does anything illegal, they need to call the authorities. They didn't. Although the city doesn't quite like it (or me) we can now prepare mortgage documents for less than 10ac. and the County will record them. They plainly state on the survey "NON-CONVEYANCE DOCUMENT - FOR MORTGAGE PURPOSES ONLY". I was the one that got that started. B-)
The head cheese at the planning department wanted me to explain what the City would do with a less than 10 acre tract if the mortgage was ever foreclosed on...I told them to have the bank arrested for owning an "illegal parcel"...:snarky:
Like I said, we have an agreement to not particularly like each other over there at City Hall...
Fighting City Hall (and winning)>clearcut
I see where clear cut is coming from, I agree with his analysis. If I tried to that around here I would be creating a lot in violation of the state subdivision control law. I am not sure that paden hasn't created a title problem that will surface at building permit time, or financing time.
I have corrected any number of unlawful land divisions around here fairly easily. I can't speak as to the hoops that paden's client might have had to jump through, but aren't the laws for everyone? Would they have to do anymore than anyone else under the same circumstances?
My 0.04' worth
Dtp
> So the quitclaim was a blatant circumvention of the agency's subdivision ordinances. And you're culpable for advising them as to this lawless tact in addition to the preparation of the documents used therein.
>
> Pardon me if I don't give any atta-boys, as I am completely opposed to those who purposefully break the law, and am amazed at those stupid enough to then brag about it. I don't know about your state, but in mine, this would be grounds for losing one's license and is something I would have no problem reporting to the board.
You'd make a great City employee. They have folks over there that can help you find your backside with your hands!
As for implying stupidity...you'd best be careful. I probably could have been your daddy, but something stupider than I apparently beat me over the fence.
Unk,
My only problem with this is that the system has created a need for people to do idiotic things like you had to do.
I don't disagree with what you've done, it just pisses me off that you had to in the first place.
There was a jerk county prosecutor around here that was trying to arrest "developers" and even surveyors for violating the county subdivision ordinance.
It's funny that we live in supposed politically "conservative" places, and yet this kind of thing happens.