FEMA Flood Certfiicate Question

I would consider the loading dock as '...adjacent steps..." and add this information where asked on the form

interesting situation.?ÿ ?ÿI'd say the building is not in the flood plain, but that's just a gut reaction.?ÿ ?ÿif the lowered loading ramp didn't end up right at the building would that make a difference??ÿ ?ÿI'm thinking of a solid outside loading area between the building and the end of the ramp.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ

I wouldn't consider a loading dock the same thing as a finished floor. I'd say you are safe.

Of course, the FEMA language should be consulted for a definitive answer.

Loading dock??ÿ What loading dock??ÿ Did you see one??ÿ I didn't.

@holy-cow?ÿ

LOL.?ÿ Still LOL.

Truth often comes out in jest!

Posted by: @frank-willis

The site was filled to 102 feet and was removed from the floodplain based upon fill and was approved by FEMA as no longer being in the floodplain.

The question is:?ÿ Since the floor of the dock is one foot below the 100-year floodplain, is the warehouse considered to be in the floodplain??ÿ

This may be a dumb question but you stated a LOMR-F was approved by FEMA. What did it remove from the floodplain? Just the structure, a portion of the property or the entire property??ÿ If the floor of the dock falls within the area that was removed by the LOMR-F does it matter what the elevation is?

I've never completed an elevation certificate for a structure after a LOMA has been approved so I don't know the answer to your question but am interested in what others have to say.?ÿ

What I have pictured in my head is a "basement type area" next to the building that is below the BFE while all of the surrounding ground is above the BFE, hence the need for pumps to remove the water.

Corey

Many years ago I had a dispute with some nummnutz employed by FEMA.?ÿ He said the house had to be in the flood plain and I was saying it wasn't.?ÿ He said the BFE is XXX + 1 and the basement floor is at XXX.?ÿ I told him the basement was irrelevant in this issue.?ÿ The contour of XXX + 1 was nearly 200 feet from the nearest point of the house and the LAG was roughly XXX + 8.?ÿ He said the soil would get saturated and potentially put pressure on the lowest foot of the basement wall.?ÿ I laughed and told him to do a little research on the soils that make up that hill the house is setting on.?ÿ This is some of the tightest, most impervious clay you can find.?ÿ Plus, when the water hits the BFE in this upper end of a small creek, it will not be around long enough to saturate all that soil you are so worried about.?ÿ Use some common sense, not just magic numbers.

Posted by: @holy-cow

The pressure of 1 foot head of water is 0 at the water level and 0.43 psi at the bottom, so 31 pounds per linear foot along the wall. A 40 ft wall would have 1238 pounds of force spread along it, effectively at 6 inches above the floor, a very short lever arm.?ÿ That is unlikely to cause a cave in.?ÿ It's probably had worse from ground water after rainstorms that didn't raise the creek to that level.

I would put some language in the notes about the loading dock.

I don't recall the FEMA literature addressing a pumped "well".?ÿ If this was connected to the flood plain with a drain pipe, it'd be an easy call.?ÿ I'd say you need a close reading of the Elevation Certificate instructions....

I submitted a warehouse?ÿ for a LOMA with a similar situation which wasn't on fill. Finish floor 4' above BFE, HAG 8' above BFE, LAG (loading dock CB) -0.5 from BFE. It was denied based on the LAG at the loading docks (4 total). I argued that there was a CB at the bottom of each one which would prevent flooding by the natural drainage but was still denied. They were getting insurance without an EC and did get a better insurance premium because of the FF elevation. I feel that if the FF is well above the BFE, and there are tons of concrete with a slab on grade floor, nothing would really be compromised. The flooding would actually occur from the CB backing up during a flood. The building had been there over 80 years and through numerous flood events without damage to it or the contents.?ÿ

Loading dock??ÿ What loading dock??ÿ Did you see one??ÿ I didn't.

Seriously, it's all a scam to benefit the insurance company.

@holy-cow

I dunno about that, I talked to an insurance guy a few months ago to get some quotes for business insurance.?ÿ I happened to mention flood certs as one of the things I might do with my business and right away he said flood certs are the bane of his existence.?ÿ He went on to describe how the price of them rarely outweighs a cost saving on the premium, but he ends up being made to be the badguy even though banks and mortgage companies are the ones that require them.?ÿ Anyway, his point was something like unless you're building a million dollar house they don't pay for themselves.

@bstrand?ÿ

I get it.?ÿ It is easier to sell a policy based on incorrect data or insufficient data for a lower fee, but a sure sale.?ÿ The salesman collects his commission and the company is never planning to pay out anyway.

Over the years I have educated numerous (potential) clients on how to avoid flood insurance entirely.

Theoretically, the flood water will never touch the lowest adjacent grade, so the building is out. As someone else said above, I'd treat the loading dock like an attached staircase and note it in your comments. No one is going to insure the loading dock.?ÿ

Heaven help you if you missed a sunken bathtub at BFE - 0.5. ???? ???? ?????ÿ

Frank, you already answered your question.?ÿ You said the site was filled and removed from the floodplain. I would refer to the approved LOMAR-F that the site is not in the floodplain.?ÿ?ÿ

?ÿ

Hamilton,

Great answer and the correct solution!?ÿ Much appreciated.