Fellow Surveyors,
I have prepared dozens of FAA Elevation letters, mostly of the 1-A variety but some of the 2-C variety. All of my work, so far, has been in California, where I have been licensed.
Now, my client is asking if I can produce 2-C letters for 50 sites in the state of Montana. I understand that the letters need to be surveyed by or under the supervision of and stamped and signed by a Land Surveyor.
My question is: Since this is a Federal (FAA) document, does that responsible individual need to be licensed in the particular state in question? I mean, can a PLS from California collect a bunch of geodetic locations and elevations in Montana and produce the requisite letter?
I think I know the answer but I was hoping for some input from others that have done this sort of project in a state other than one in which he is registered.
Thanks for your input, in advance.
JA, PLS SoCal
I would say that you could probably do the work just fine. The rub might come along if someone that would use these things would demand a stamp.
Are the sites located on Federal land? Most 1-A letters I have done are for proposed towers or temporary cranes on Airport property (City or County) and relate to the 7460 that needs to be submitted for proposed construction. Is a PE submitting the 7460? If so, see what the license requirements are for the State of Montana and you could potentially locate the objects under his supervision. This would be like California's law which allows PE's and LS's to establish the location of fixed public works.
Edit* If the sites are not on Federal land, then the State laws would apply and I do not think you would be able to perform the work without the supervision of an LS or potentially a PE, if allowed to do this work also.
Brad
Are surveyor's licenses required to determine latitude, longitude and elevation?
The way I read the law for California, yes (CA B&P 6731.1(a), 8726(a), 8875(c) and 8876), because the 1-A letter requires an accuracy to be met and you are establishing a fixed works embraced within the practice of civil engineer. Depending on how the laws are written for Montana, (24.83.1109 (2.a.iv)) it appears this would fall under the practice of land surveying. But this was just a cursory look at Montana's laws and I am not licensed there, so I am not certain.
That's interesting.
I don't think a license should be required, but obviously, the state is in charge.
You said it has to be stamped. I'll be surprised if a license issued in one state is any better than no license in another state. The possible exception being if it is on Federal property.
In a perfect world, since you would be certifying to a Federal agency, logically your license in any state should show that you've met minimum qualifications. There is no knowledge of state laws or local history needed. But that's not how licensing boards in our existing world think.
I would NEVER stamp an out of state plan unless I had received a temporary permit allowing me to do so.
Dtp
Why would Federal Land make a difference? The work is for a private service provider.
You will have to be licensed in the state you are working in or get a temporary permit.
If it is a project with the federal government retaining ownership of the product (ASSC tower, glideslope antenna, DME, etc...)on federal property, I do not believe one has to be licensed in that state to do the work. This has always been my understanding of license requirements on federally owned property, like military installations owned by the DoD.
I've heard that said before. I know work done by the feds for the feds can be done by out of State licensees actually employed the agency. I have never seen an a statutory exemption that extends to the private sector...
Thank you all for your thoughts.
I have no real idea where these 50 cell towers and structural installations reside.
If history can provide any clue, I have only worked on two sites that were on Federal land. A handful have been on State school property, most on private property.
These FAA documents require a signature and a stamp, certifying to the accuracy. I can only guess what some guy in Montana is going to think of my stamp with the words"STATE OF CALIFORNIA" prominently displayed.
I will root around in the Statues of Montana to be sure. Too cold up there right now, anyway.
Thanks, again, for your responses.
JA, PLS SoCAl
Gentlemen,
A quick search of the Montana Code Annotated 2014:
Title 37. Professions and Occupations, Chapter 67. Engineers and Land Surveyors, Part 1, 37-67-101 Definition (7) "Practice of land surveying" means any service or work, the performance of which requires the application of special knowledge of the principles of mathematics, physical sciences, applied sciences, and: (d) location of natural and constructed features in the air, on the surface of the earth, within underground workings, and on the beds of bodies of water, including work for the determination of areas and volumes.
Sounds pretty clear to me. If I do any measuring in Montana, then I am practicing Land Surveying and therefore required to be licensed.
Oh, well. Easy come, easy go. Anybody interested?
Best regards,
JA,PLS SoCal
First of all....
What is/are FAA 1-A & 2-C Letters?
Yes you need to be licensed in Montana for sure, no question about it!!
Please email me at the address in my profile. My employer has Montana...
First of all....
1-A letters are statements regarding the locations of certain objects, such as cell towers, that may penetrate FAA airspace (Part 77, RPZ, OFZ, OCS, TSS). The accuracy of a 1-A letter, the FAA's most stringent is +/- 20' horizontally & 3' orthometrically absolute positions.
Brad