Engineering Degree To Surveying License, How Much Education?

One question that never seems to come up when it pertains to credits required is if they are they semesters or quarters. Having come from a quarter school, I've always considered that favorable to semesters because you take more classes.

I would say 20% of credits in a non-survey degree, should be survey courses, to be eligible to sit for PLS in degree states.

Illinois requires 24 hours of surveying courses and a bachelors in either land surveying or a related science (any natural science generally will do, and of course civil engineering is a related science as well).

Missouri requires 24 hours of surveying but I'm not sure they have a specific degree requirement.

Iowa require an Associate degree as a minimum but I don't think they specify credit hours in surveying per se.

I'm pretty sure Wisconsin requires an AS in surveying now too.

I'm not sure about Indiana.....

Here's what our State Board says...I can't read it intelligently, but it looks like Oklahoma requires a minimum of 4 years 'experience'..degree or not.

Oklahoma Requirements for Licensure

Florida Requires BS in surveying (32 semester hours)

If in a degree requirement state, they need that required surveying degree. Should be no shortcuts. I have seen many engineering people that obtained their surveying license using a shortcut method, often getting sigh offs on experience without the experience being a fact. Then a quick study of law in order to pass the exam, end up being very poor surveyors and unwilling to accept that fact, so they could change. Generally caused by arrogance and a disdain for surveying in general. It is in boundary issues where the engineer with a surveying license does the most harm. As a general rule, exceptions noted, Civil Engineers do not make good Boundary Surveyors, the double license seems to work best in the Surveyor first, then Engineer route.
jud

Before the degree requirement in Texas, an Associates degree from Tyler Jr. College(the best AS surveying degree in the state) or 32 hours of college surveying courses would cut 2 years off of the 6 year responsible charge experience requirement. I got in with enough college and 4 years responsible charge. I haven't checked the requirements since the 4 year degree requirement kicked in in 2003.

> If in a degree requirement state, they need that required surveying degree. Should be no shortcuts. I have seen many engineering people that obtained their surveying license using a shortcut method, often getting sigh offs on experience without the experience being a fact. Then a quick study of law in order to pass the exam, end up being very poor surveyors and unwilling to accept that fact, so they could change. Generally caused by arrogance and a disdain for surveying in general. It is in boundary issues where the engineer with a surveying license does the most harm. As a general rule, exceptions noted, Civil Engineers do not make good Boundary Surveyors, the double license seems to work best in the Surveyor first, then Engineer route.
> jud

I have noticed that also. Very few engineers with licenses are actually as good at surveying as they assume they are. The really good ones got the surveying license first.

This will be a little longer than just answering

the question as it involves my only discontent with the Kentucky board. That being not recognizing the TAC/ABET degree which is accepted by many other states for licensure as a PE. While I currently have no interest in becoming a PE, it does annoy me to some extent that I could move to many other states and do so if I wanted to. I would also like to point out that while at university, many students took the fundamentals of engineering exam in states that recognized the TAC/ABET degree. During my last year and a half of undergrad work and as a grad assistant, I kept a log of pass/fail for the students traveling for the exam. We had a much higher (+/-15%) passing rate than the national average.

Now I just need some cheese with that whine and I'll continue.......

As to your question, in Kentucky:

A graduate of a "... civil, mining, or agricultural engineering program of 4 years or more accredited by the EAC/ABET..." needs 12 semester hours of the "core curriculum in land surveying (see below)" plus 4 years of progressive supervised experience.

A graduate of any other 4 year degree program (including a civil engineering technology program accredited by TAC/ABET) will need 24 (12 core and 12 additional) semester hours of land surveying plus 4 years of progressive experience.

Here is the curriculum the board refers to:

Section 1. The core curriculum in land surveying and related areas referred to in KRS 322.045(1)(c)2 shall consist of twenty-four (24) semester credit hours from a board-approved college or university as follows:

(1) A minimum of twelve (12) semester credit hours in at least three (3) of the following subject areas:
(a) Principles of Surveying;
(b) Professional Ethics and Conduct;
(c) Computer Graphics related to land surveying;
(d) Geographic Information Systems;
(e) Route Surveying;
(f) Land Boundary Location; or
(g) Boundary Law.

(2) The remainder of the twenty-four (24) semester credit hours shall come from the following subject areas:
(a) Automated Surveying and Mapping;
(b) Geodetic Surveying;
(c) Hydrographic Surveying;
(d) Photogrammetry;
(e) Subdivision and Land Use Planning;
(f) Advanced Surveying Measurement;
(g) Construction Surveying;
(h) Public Land Systems;
(i) Remote Sensing Applications; or
(j) Mine Surveying.

As long as there is a degree requirement, my opinion is that 24 hours is the absolute bare minimum that should be required preferably closer to 48. Especially given that a CE(T) student could also benefit from many of the courses listed in applications other than boundary surveying.

Also, requiring a choice of 12 hours from section one above actually could leave off both boundary courses. I believe that at least 8 hours specifically on boundary location and boundary law should be a minimum.

While the GIS and the route surveying course would be beneficial, the license is issued for boundary work in Kentucky. So the boundary courses should be required instead of substituting GIS or Route Surveying.

Reply To Requirements Specific With An Engineering Degree

There are too many other options and issues to comingle them all. I am trying to determine what is required in Surveying Degree required states to allow engineers to come in the back door, so to speak.

I fear that in some states that back door may soon open wide.

Paul in PA

Reply To Requirements Specific With An Engineering Degree

How about zero extra hours? If you can pass the test, have at it.

Florida, For Instance

Florida requires a surveying degree with at least 32 hours of surveying. Take note that Florida technical degrees require only 120 credits in total.

In PA, an AS requires 30-31 credits out of a 67-70 total, (2 1/2 year program).

In PA, a BS now requires 54 credits out of 132 total.

So a BS Surveying Deree in Florida is barely more surveying knowledge than an AS in PA.

However in Florida an individual with an Engineering degree may take the Survey exam with 25 credits in Surveying. That is more than twice as much as is required of an Engineer in PA.

My point is that requirements to take the Survey exam are all over the scale in the USA.

Paul in PA

Sorry, NCEES Exams Cannot Judge All Of Knowledge Or Ability

Eight hour NCEES exams are a mere evaluation that the knowledge learned in the university environment has been retained and understood. Sort of a Final Final Exam.

Many experience only survyors can pass the Principles and Practice of Surveying exam yet fail on the Fundamentals of Surveying which measures book learning.

For certain Engineering fields 16 hour exams are now standard.

Paul in PA

Reply To Requirements Specific With An Engineering Degree

In my opinion, you are right. Examination is technically the gateway to the professional surveying world. If you pass clean through it irrespective of your background then technically you are fit for the job. Just an opinion. Cheers!

2 Year AS Still Acceptable In Texas (?)

However, experience after the degree is required before taking the FS. They have not shut the AS out completely. But it appears they may require some additional education for the RPLS after one becomes an SIT. The rules vay greatly which is why I am asking those who have been thereand done that.

Paul in PA

West Virginia - requires 30 semester hrs in surveying;

Georgia - requires 20 quarter hrs in surveying (5 of which have to be in hydrology);

Virginia - requires 1 year of experience;

Arkansas - requires 9 semester hrs in surveying;

These requirements assume a four year degree in Civil Engineering, otherwise there are additional requirements.

2 Year AS Still Acceptable In Texas (?)

Unless there is a hole in the rules I haven't seen, the only good an AS does is that it is half of a BS. Been that way since 2003 for all those that weren't in the pipeline already. They only had 6 years to complete at that time.

I have seen mixed results from Engineers. Some view it as a technical sidelight (easy extra money) and therefore cause problems. But there are Engineers who are very good Surveyors because they take it seriously as a profession.

The Thing About You, Jud

Is that when you're right, you are really right. Like just now.
:good:
Excellent post.

Don

Apples, Oranges and Grapefruit

Apples-- engineering graduate with at least four years of engineering experience with no survey experience, take the exam, no extra hours required to test, but, odds are high that you will fail

Oranges-- engineering graduate with four years mixed experience plus three survey courses, should be able to take and pass test.

Graperfruit-- engineering graduate with PE of which at least two years experience was survey-related, should be able to take and pass test after taking online courses in crucial test areas. Courses not required to apply to take the test. Highly recommended.