No matter who it is, when a crew chief tells me that he did not find an iron.....I wonder if I could have found it if I was there with them.
It always bugs me to say an iron is missing if I have not searched for it myself.
Employees finding Pins
I know the feeling. I have sent crews out to look for specific monuments that are shown to exist on previous surveys and have gotten the cell phone call "We can't find sh__ out here". Sometimes I have gone out and beeped them up, sometimes I've gone out and not found sh__. What I tell people is that you have to really want it to be there. Some people show up at the job with the attitude that the monuments are probably all wiped out or were never set in the first place. That attitude is not conducive to finding stuff.
I know of your pain...
I could relate a story to you from my most recent Surveyors meeting... But I think I'll just let it slide....
My first PLS boss was probably the most anal searcher I have ever met, so I consider myself lucky.
I can recall a search that led him three to four feet below ground with nearly half his body down in the hole.
I tend to have the same anal tenacity when I am on a corner hunt.
Offer a bonus. $2 to $5 cash per pin depending on how many you expect should be there (don't break the bank). Amazing what good beer money will do to motivate, especially when it is cash money that the wife will never see as part of the pay check!!
I sent a crew 90 minutes to a job in Waco one time with corners to search for. They didn't have much luck. I just happened to be going to Austin the following day and stopped in at the project on my way. I found the first corner within 30 seconds of getting out of my car and 3 more in less than 2 minutes. I would have fired over this incident if I had the ability to do so at the time. I hate having to work with crews who think it is just a job and are counting time to the next paycheck. I like working with people who like their job and want to learn more about it/get better at it.
Potential problem with that, dhunter, is that I once had (emphasis on had) a party chief that had a big key ring with just about every license tag you could think of on it, so if he needed to find something, he could. Not that anybody here would hire somebody like that. He also had another key ring with keys that would open just about any locked gate, so that was helpful.
One thing I have always said that just because you have your license, that doesn't make you good at everything. It should make you good at boundary analysis, but I have had people I have worked with that are better at turning angles, better at drafting, better at running levels etc. Who says the people looking for the corners for you aren't just as good at it as you. I think we as PLS's get in this mind set that we are the best at everything and no one else can do as good a job.
That said, sometimes having a different person go out and look for corners can bring a fresh view on it and maybe you start to find some pins. I have spent hours looking for pins, and something mislead me to look in the wrong spot. Sometimes a different set of eyes will help. The biggest reason I will find corners that someone else won't find is motivation. I often realize how badly I need a corner and will spend a crazy amount of time looking for a corner if I need it bad enough.
I have returned several times to the same location when I was just sure it had to be there and then finally found it after more diligence and additional research. Unless you have an employee who has that killer mentality of finding corners, many will be missed with the first quick check.
I think this is how some pin farms come into existance, this is more likely of a scenario than a professional willingly setting a pin a few tenths away from the original over some fuzzy math.
BL
I agree. I had a crew come in one afternoon claiming they couldn't find a front pin that I knew was there. I gave them the coords to stake it. The next day, I went to the site, and there was a shiny new pin with my cap on it...right next to the one I knew was there.
Heads rolled that afternoon...
that is the reason that i'm w/ the crew 99% of the time when we are locating mons. besides, i don't want to have anyone, surveyor or lawyer, ask me if i saw the corner. too many surveyors today are office surveyors, and it shows in both the quality of thier crew and the work that they put out.
> that is the reason that i'm w/ the crew 99% of the time when we are locating mons. besides, i don't want to have anyone, surveyor or lawyer, ask me if i saw the corner. too many surveyors today are office surveyors, and it shows in both the quality of thier crew and the work that they put out.
That's why I'm solo now..... 😉
Come on. PK Nail in a parking lot with ties to the nearby light post and building corner? Really? They couldn't find it and I can drive to the area and see it without even having to broom the asphalt? I suppose this wasn't a case of "couldn't find it", it was probably more a case of "didn't look for it".
BL
There are two times to use the locator. 1 when you are searching for corners and 1 when you are setting corners. I would hate to set an iron next to another, although I have found my current company's caps within a tenth or two on opposite sides of the chain link fence. Probably why I like to go to the field as much as I can.
It is rare these days to have a crew chief that takes the extra effort that it takes in searching for monuments. Most of the time, he does not even have the training to
give that effort.
Heck he can run the gun like a champ, lets give him a crew. lol
I see it all of the time.
If it is not within arms length of where the "office search coordinates" put it, it will probably not be found by todays crew. If it is close to a wire fence, forget about it.
A minute or 2 of shoveling and thats all you get anymore.
In the old days, you moved up the ladder by showing interest, hard work and a
desire to learn. The Party Chief wanted badly to get into the office to further
his chances of being licensed.
Now, his chances of being licensed are almost zero unless he is motivated (and has the funds) to go back to school and get his hours to satisfy the State requirements for licensure.
Who can afford that at todays wages? He is just stuck in a mud-pit.
I have crew chiefs call me regular for a position with my company and the best
pay I have heard of around here was $18 hour and I think he was stretching it.
The last crew chief I had was 7 years ago, he was with me for 5 years, I trained him well from the ground up, he learned well and he was making $25 an hour (with benefits) when he had to move for other reasons. Even at that rate he made me plenty of profit.
Bottom line, you get what you pay for, pay them better, train them better, if not, don't bitch!
Randy
BL
> There are two times to use the locator. 1 when you are searching for corners and 1 when you are setting corners.
Andy, that's been SOP for me since Dad taught me that. I have only found one about 10% of the time... but that's enough...
My first chief, was a field PLS and had zero inclination as to boundry analasys. He was soon back in the office where he belonged. I know career gunman who can blow most office puke's out of the water, in certain task's. For me there are two factor's attitude, and expierence. I dont know how many time's ive seen guy's track a bad to reach. i.e. NNE typo when it's actualy SSE.. One would think simple observation's to the tie's would solve this. Then there are guy's who could care less and are just watching the clock. Weed them out with nasty line cutting job's lol...
Amen brother. There are jobs you can send pukes out on and there are jobs you need your A-team for. It's just harder to find an A-team these days. I am my A-team as of late. (Let's not discuss the as-built steel column job I spent three days on because my pukes couldn't handle it. Although on boundaries they do get the work out).
