Elevation Certificate Question

How about a LOMA, Out as Shown

https://emilms.fema.gov/IS1106a/groups/93.html

We did such a thing recently.?ÿ What the lender wanted was a description of a tract, within the overall tract, that was clearly outside the flood plain.?ÿ No elevation data needed.?ÿ This, of course, would meet the Out As Shown category.?ÿ That way they were comfortable dropping the demand for flood insurance while still taking the entire tract as collateral.?ÿ Of course, we shot elevations anyway, but, without a definite BFE it was merely a comparison to the elevations along the apparent edge of the Zone A.

The LOMA OAS is reserved for finished construction. This situation would be better addressed by a pre-construction elevation certificate indicating the planned location is not in the SFHA. If the lender (or owner) still wants flood insurance I would provide the LOMA OAS on the finished structure.

@thebionicman

OK, how does a pre-construction elevation certificate work?

@lookinatchya

They look really stupid, especially the pictures of dirt/grass/whatever/but no building materials.

Leave everything blank except lowest and highest adjacent grade where construction stakes mark out the future structure.  More than anything else they are a planning tool.  Leave benchmarks behind for contractors to use to try to ensure they don't build things too low.  It gives the lender a warm, fuzzy feeling.

Thanks for all the comments. I completed the EC noting?ÿ pre-construction where ever possible. Provided the elevation at the proposed building site for the LAG and HAG, marked everything else N/A. Provided a FIRM showing?ÿ the location of the proposed house is clearly out of the A-Zone and noted in the comments that the site is +/- 63 feet above the stream bank.

Will let you all know how it goes.

@holy-cow

I never put pictures on a pre or mid elevation cert. I also add a note saying the Finished Floor is base off construction plans. I also give the height of the crowd of the road, since it my area most Cites want new construction to be a foot and a half or two feet above the road.

first, ask for proposed 'construction drawings' with ff and bf elevations - may only be a sketch

Then (in EC) look at Section C - Building Elevation Information (survey required) and C1 Building elevations are based on:?ÿ then check 'construction drawings'

this may get you to where you want to go

@lookinatchya

You prepare the certificate based on the plans. Be sure to check box C1 indicating that's the case. You will need another certificate post construction if the lender or owner wants it insured.

In NE Texas, Cass County especially, there are few people that have built inside flood zone areas and many places that the flood zone is contained within the banks of a waterway.

When the water backs up, it rarely overflows the high bank.

We simply show the borders of the waterway and then show that the buildings are not with the flowage areas.

@holy-cow

How did you determine the elevation along the edge of the Flood Zone?

@scott-ellis

why wouldn't you put pics on a "during construction" EC?    Seems like those generate the most questions, regarding status of construction at time of field visit.

@andy-j

Its just not required for a mid, most of the time its just a slab or piers in the ground with a stringer, or form. What questions do you get on a mid, that isnt answered by filling the form out?

@scott-ellis

well, most of mine would be pilings with an elevated first floor, so they want to "see" the enclosure status at ground level.  That's life at 8 feet above sea level! 

We seem to be overrun with silly people who think they need to build in the flood zone.?ÿ One was a very wealthy fellow who intended to build a grand home very close to his office building.?ÿ The office building was outfitted with several sliding glass doors such that flood water could run through the building when it needed to do so.?ÿ Wall outlets, table tops and any kind of paper files and electronics were on the order of three feet above the floor level.?ÿ Where he wanted to put the new house would result in the first floor having even more flood depth potential.?ÿ He had enough money that he could do whatever he chose to do and this was it.

Posted by: @holy-cow

He had enough money that he could do whatever he chose to do and this was it.

Some people have more money than brains...

Out in the rural part of the county FEMA did some new Zone AE flood maps along two of the more densely populated streams. An old client of mine stopped me at a grocery store and began a story of a house he bought as a rental that flooded this year. He wanted me to do a survey and get it out of the flood plain so he could buy flood insurance at a reasonable cost.

I brought up the site on my phone and sure enough even though it was a good distance from the stream the map showed a flood plain pushing out and over to the house, just like it did this year. I looked at him and explained there wasn't much I could do, you got conformation that it's in the flood plain this year and it's probably going to keep happening. He had heard that a survey could solve the issue. I told him it's hydrology, I can go out there and get an elevation, but it's going to no doubt be a foot above his finished floor which is where the water ended up this spring...ƒ??..

Then he tells me he's had the house for 8 years and this is the second time it's flooded.?ÿ Well, he could have started off with that little nugget.

@dave-reynolds

In a Zone A, there is no established BFE . You have to either do a simplified Flood Study if the building site is touching the Zone A Boundary. If your building site is inside the Zone A boundary you have to do a Detailed Flood Study. The Detailed Flood Study requires cross sectionss above and below the building lot and a complete topo of the entire lot. If it's a small stream it's not too tough, but if it's a major river, getting the cross sections can be a challenge. It also helps to have a nearby stream gauge. I'd be looking for a hydrologist if it's a complex study. You can interpolate from previous Studies?ÿ if they were located fairly close by. Most Highway major bridges probably had a flood study done for their design. Check with the Highway Department. Depending on the site a Detailed Study can be easy and fairly cheap or very difficult and very expensive. If you're a one man shop with no experience, I'd be shopping for a firm with the equipment and experience in doing the Flood Study. You can do the lot topog and establish control. I only use NGS Benchmarks or OPUS elevations . Personally I think the OPUS derived elevations are more precise than the published NGS Benchmark elevations. NGS is begging Surveyors to observe their benchmarks with GPS, which leads me to believe they have some concerns with their published benchmark precisions. Either one is defensible, just depends on how anal you are in accepting data. ?ÿ A simple Elevation Certificate and a Detailed Flood Study are two different cats. If you do the study and your client's building floods with a less than a hundred year flood event you're to blame. If it floods when your Elevation Certificate says they are above the FEMA supplied BFE, FEMA is to blame. Remember BFE's are derived from statistics.