digital seal and signature

I think the first place to look is the regulations for land surveyors in your state. Without knowing your state, I think it's hard to provide meaningful suggestions.

sorry, i just want to know anyone's opinion. they are allowed in my state. i personally think that once it out there, it's out there.

You need to know the definition of digital (or electronic) seal in your State. If you simply mean an electronic image, I will never use one again.
A few years ago my seal was hijacked. Our coward PA declined prosecution. The way it was used could have cost me my license. I no longer allow the creation of acad blocks of my seals.

cls5095, post: 400446, member: 6344 wrote: sorry, i just want to know anyone's opinion. they are allowed in my state. i personally think that once it out there, it's out there.

That's how I see it. Maine requires an original signature to record a plan, but copies from the Registry's website are obviously not coming with original signatures. Fraudulent use of such copies is obviously illegal and I don't take it on myself to try to prevent that (of which I've seen negligibly few real-world examples). thebionicman seems to have one above, but it's the only one of this sort I've seen.

i guess my problem is that i get calls all day long wanting signed sealed pdf's of my survey. and i quote "yeah but all the other surveyor's do it". i don't want to be like all the other surveyor's. i guess i'm old school. my survey should be a hard copy with my signature and embossed seal.

cls5095, post: 400453, member: 6344 wrote: i guess my problem is that i get calls all day long wanting signed sealed pdf's of my survey. and i quote "yeah but all the other surveyor's do it". i don't want to be like all the other surveyor's. i guess i'm old school. my survey should be a hard copy with my signature and embossed seal.

you just changed the question, a lot

as to your original question, I think a seal is far from sacred.
Lower level Cad Techs have been whipping out blocks of seals for 20 years or more.
Clerical staff have been "shopping" seals and putting them on letters and descriptions for decades also.
You don't have to use them, you can wet seal everything if you prefer, I would rather not bother, I appreciate the convenience.
(I still have the one and only rubber stamp I bought in 1982, but it has dried out and is useless)

signatures I consider Personal. try as I might my signature is always a bit different...
I never cared for (or approved of) mass producing a phony signature.

I used a digitally encrypted signature on PDF files for a little while and thought it was ok. If someone wants to forge your seal and signature, not using a digital signature won't stop them. We are required to keep wet sealed paper copies in our files, but as I have stated numerous times before, I also number and journal my signatures as well as the color of ink I sign with. I never sign with black or use a black stamp pad. You might copy my seal and signature but it is unlikely that you can alter my journal. I just hit certification number 3400 friday. I am just about to fill up my second journal, too.

Ultimately it is your signature and seal to protect as you see fit.

cls5095, post: 400453, member: 6344 wrote: i guess my problem is that i get calls all day long wanting signed sealed pdf's of my survey. and i quote "yeah but all the other surveyor's do it". i don't want to be like all the other surveyor's. i guess i'm old school. my survey should be a hard copy with my signature and embossed seal.

Ah, yes, I'm familiar with the "everyone else does it" crap. My reply is they can have a pdf with the mandatory electronic statement, or I'll mail them a signed and sealed paper plot. The problem is with the law firms that drilled "look for the seal" into paralegals 50 years ago and haven't quite caught up to the current century.

My hope is that eventually more people will catch on to the benefits of pdfs and electronic transmission. FedEx is fast, but across the country in two minutes is even faster.

Bruce Small, post: 400456, member: 1201 wrote: Ah, yes, I'm familiar with the "everyone else does it" crap. My reply is they can have a pdf with the mandatory electronic statement, or I'll mail them a signed and sealed paper plot. The problem is with the law firms that drilled "look for the seal" into paralegals 50 years ago and haven't quite caught up to the current century.

My hope is that eventually more people will catch on to the benefits of pdfs and electronic transmission. FedEx is fast, but across the country in two minutes is even faster.

PDFs are great, quick and simple... but I always provide 1 or more old fashioned wet signed hard copies. Any neighborhood copy shop can reproduce them by the kilo

One of the issues with some solutions is simple. Law.
Here we are required to use black ink on the seal and signature for recordable documents. Two other States I work in require that I maintain sole control of my seal. All of them require that I maintain exclusive control of my encrypted signature. The laws vary to the point that very few hard and fast rules work everywhere...

The one time my ID was used fraudulently the perp didn't even bother with a seal, he just used my name and a signature in his own hand. (He went to jail for a year, but for providing fraudulent lab reports of groundwater contamination, not for fake monitoring well elevations.)

My primary map deliverable nowadays is a digitally-signed PDF. I no longer provide a hard copy unless specifically requested by the client or required for recordation.

Andy Nold, post: 400455, member: 7 wrote: I used a digitally encrypted signature on PDF files for a little while and thought it was ok. If someone wants to forge your seal and signature, not using a digital signature won't stop them. We are required to keep wet sealed paper copies in our files, but as I have stated numerous times before, I also number and journal my signatures as well as the color of ink I sign with. I never sign with black or use a black stamp pad. You might copy my seal and signature but it is unlikely that you can alter my journal. I just hit certification number 3400 friday. I am just about to fill up my second journal, too.

Ultimately it is your signature and seal to protect as you see fit.

You keep a journal of everything you seal? as a brand new licensee that hasn't stamped anything yet, I'd like to know more about this. how you go about it etc..

My digital seal is not a copy of my professional seal and signature. I use GlobalSign digital signatures for PDFs. The signature shows my name (w/PLS), email, and date. Once a PDF is signed there is a bar at the top of the drawing that shows the signature as valid. If the PDF is altered or edited the bar shows the PDF as altered and the signature is invalid. The digital signature is on a USB which is password protected. You can add a scan of your professional seal and signature if you like. GlobalSIgn also conforms to my Board of Registration‰Ûªs standard.

Jon Collins, post: 400460, member: 11135 wrote: You keep a journal of everything you seal? as a brand new licensee that hasn't stamped anything yet, I'd like to know more about this. how you go about it etc..

It's certainly not necessary but it gives me a nice record of my work and a way to verify my signatures. It only takes a few extra seconds to log the metadata, although I am regretting right now because I am in the middle of certifying 300 plats for a large ranch easement mapping project. When I passed 999 certifications, I switched to an alphanumeric number to keep from having more than 4 digits.

This certification number is unique to the particular boundary survey that I have logged in my journal. If you were savy enough to re-use or change the number, it won't match my journal. Again, I realize it seems excessive to other people, but I've got a handy and unique record of my projects. I will also record reminder notes about project with peculiar details (like when I took over a subdivision plat from another surveyor and had to review all the data and the boundary analysis before I could move forward with it). There is even a special entry on Sept. 11, 2009.

The ink color changes from time to time both on the seal and on the signature. The entry color in the journal matches the signature color on the plat.

We have this in CT (see page 2). I will never release a cad file with a seal on it, even to another surveyor. I will send a scanned pdf with my seal on it.

Here's the law from The Garden State:

13:40-8.1A DIGITAL SIGNATURES AND SEALS
a) A digital signature and seal shall carry the same weight, authority, and effect as a
handwritten signature and impression-type seal when the following criteria are met:
1) The digital signing and sealing process satisfies the requirements of the Digital
Signature Standard (DSS) established by the National Institute of Standards and
Technology, FIPS PUB 186-4, Digital Signature Algorithm Validation System, (2014),
which is hereby incorporated by reference, as amended and supplemented. This
standard may be obtained at the following website: http:www.NIST.gov/. The digital
signature and seal must be:
i) Unique to the licensee;
ii) Verifiable by a trusted third party or some other approved process as belonging
to the licensee;
iii) Under the licensee‰Ûªs direct and exclusive control; and
iv) Linked to a document in such a manner that the digital signature and seal is
invalidated if any data in the document is changed. Once the digital signature and seal
are applied to the document, the document shall be available in read-only format if the
document is to be digitally transmitted.
b) A licensee who digitally signs and seals a document shall maintain a digital copy of the
electronically transmitted document that has also been digitally signed and sealed for
future verification purposes in accordance with N.J.A.C. 13:40-3.4(b).
c) The pictorial representation of the digital signature and seal shall be readily available to
the Board upon Board request and shall be produced in a manner acceptable to the
Board. It shall contain the same words and shall have substantially the same graphic
appearance and size as when the image of the digitally transmitted document is viewed
at the same size as the document in its original form.
d) Licensees are responsible for the use of their private digital keys. A lost or compromised
key shall not be used and the licensee shall cause a new key pair to be generated in
accordance with the criteria described in (a) above. A licensee shall take all reasonable
steps to ensure that a compromised key is invalidated, and shall inform all affected
clients that the digital key has been compromised.

Jethro, post: 400464, member: 7322 wrote: My digital seal is not a copy of my professional seal and signature. I use GlobalSign digital signatures for PDFs. The signature shows my name (w/PLS), email, and date. Once a PDF is signed there is a bar at the top of the drawing that shows the signature as valid. If the PDF is altered or edited the bar shows the PDF as altered and the signature is invalid. The digital signature is on a USB which is password protected. You can add a scan of your professional seal and signature if you like. GlobalSIgn also conforms to my Board of Registration‰Ûªs standard.

Jethro,
What is GlobalSign charging you a year for the service? If you don't mind me asking.

I'm thinking it was around $800 for three years.

My GlobalSign class 2 is $79/year.