I have a request for a 2004 survey I prepared for a large food chain. The parcel has been sold and the new owner is expanding and has requested an AutoCAD file. I did do some boundary line staking for the new owner last year.
Would you release the file without an update, how would you price that?
(I would want a signed ackknowledgement, that the data is outdated and may have been changed or altered)
thanks
Since you have worked for the new owner, I would explain that the survey needs to be updated and charge accordingly.
Provide an exact paper copy of your previous work. If they need more, a new job that includes recovering evidence, replacing missing previously set monuments and a new site plan. New contract could include provisions for a disk containing coordinates of items tied and shown on the Survey Drawing. Seems to be a trend to ask for files today, risky, unless provisions are made to protect and restrict the use of such data.
jud
My feeling is, I was well paid for the survey, they had it surveyed for a reason, and I knew at some point they might want more copies. If the drawing is out of date I add a big fat note with a bold outline in plain English so stating, and then I send them the drawing in both AutoCAD and pdf without charge. I make a lot of friends that way, and friends = referrals, and that means more of the best kind of clients. That's my two cents worth.
What? absolutely NOT... I would not give them my dwg, no way. I would not give it to them if I did it 2 months ago, I am not in the business of giving things away.
Quote them a fair price, about %60-70 of the original fee, re-verify, re-certify... count money. What are they going to do, hire someone to start from scratch?
The survey you completed in 2004 was for the previous owner? The only work you have performed for the new owner is staking some boundary last year? Update the survey and charge accordingly. As for the drawing, that is pretty much a standard deliverable anymore.
New poster here--All I have to say in this suit happy environment we have become---new client/owner----new liability. CYA. I agree with Pin Cushion.
You were hired by and paid, I hope, by the previous owner for a specific project. If they passed the deliverables on to their buyer as part of the sale, I think that that is legitimate, but I don't see that creates any obligation on your part to provide anything further to the new owner.
The new owner is in business to make money. I assume you are also. I would let the buyer know that I will not provide them paper or electronic drawings or data without at least verifying the site conditions and updating the drawings if necessary. You have a right to charge them a reasonable price for your services.
> I have a request for a 2004 survey I prepared for a large food chain. The parcel has been sold and the new owner is expanding and has requested an AutoCAD file. I did do some boundary line staking for the new owner last year.
>
> Would you release the file without an update, how would you price that?
> (I would want a signed ackknowledgement, that the data is outdated and may have been changed or altered)
>
> thanks
Who owns the drawing? You or the original 2004 client?
Assuming you have a scan/copy of the signed and dated original, provide a copy of that; together with the Cad drawing.
Include a proposal to update, good chance you could stay involved in the project in the future.
I only provide drawings with the printed layers, the rest of the data gets purged from the drawings I send out.
include an Invoice for a nominal clerical fee? Not me, I consider it business development.
If I released the auotcad file..
with my boundary and title block, to a non-professional, I could be brought up before the board.
I could forward the declaratory ruling if anybody wants to see it.
I agree with your response, however (as pin cushion suggested prices) I would charge 100% + of the original fee. It's a "take or leave it" business situation.
Have a great week!
My Acad file would cost as much as the original price of the job/s that are on it. I have networks of many jobs in files.
If they want that plus a certified copy of the survey, it would include a cost of living expense since the time it was surveyed and the date would remain the same.
Rarely do I get this request. Most of the time they want to pass my info to their surveyor. That is not going to happen for less than the original cost.
I have helped every surveyor that has knocked on my door. Many have helped me. Wish I could say the same for all the doors I have knocked on.
Despite all the high-minded protests on both sides, ultimately, this is a BUSINESS decision.
It's not about "liability", as you can easily provide enough caveats and disclaimers in a contract to take care of that aspect. Recent case law have proven that whether it's the original owner or a subsequent owner, you are already on the hook
liability-wise for anything on the survey, whether it's a paper copy or an AutoCAD file (third party liability, foreseeable reliance, intended beneficiaries, etc., etc., etc.).
By all means, a written advisory about the need for an update and the fact that field conditions may have changed since the date of the survey is a must.
As for providing it to a "non-professional", it's pretty obvious that they are going to take whatever you give them and hand it over to some sort of designer....if that's a concern, insist upon transferring directly to the other professional, again with the written warning.
As for the attitude that you are "not in the business of giving things away", if you charge this client for something elctronic that you have already given them on paper, you could be losing whatever future business they have to offer. It's a cost benefit analysis you have to make based upon how you want to operate your business.
I have seen a whole bunch of surveyors sued for half-way updated
surveys. Their are not any friends in this deal. You surveyed for
the owner, he sold to the purchaser, your prospective new client.
You do not owe the purchaser any favors. The purchaser may be
a litiguous type. You are going to have involved a whole new group
with the new purchaser -- new purchaser attorney, new broker, new
purchaser mortgage company, and maybe new title company, all of
which will sue surveyors who discount for updates and well as surveyors
who charge the same price. If you did the original shopping center for
$8000 and then charge $1000 for an update, what is the original owner,
who is your client and may be your friend, going to think about the
$1000 charge.
I have asked owners what they think I should charge for updates. The
response is everything I could get.
I am not greedy; I try not to be stupid. Attorneys around here start
at $20k retainer when you get sued.
:good:
If I released the auotcad file..
Joe -
I sent you a note asking for a copy Please and Thank you.
Cheers
Derek
Providing An AutoCAD File Is A Separate Liability...
...even if you did the survey last week.
Caution, Warning, Danger Will Robinson!
Paul in PA
In this State if you set a monument, you file a survey in the County Surveyors records for all to see. Those Surveys are as good 100 years from the day they were filed as they were the day the County Surveyor placed them in record. Site plans are different only as far as the features are concerned, any boundary work should not change, further subdivisions within the parent tract could take place, but the additional subdivision should have no effect on the parent tracts exterior boundary's. A Boundary Survey in this state is part of the record for as long as records are kept and a better memorial than a headstone could be. Engineers usually design for a 20 year lifespan, surveyors do work that is relied upon from the day the work was done and it reaches the records, for as long as records are kept. If this discussion is for boundary work only, there should be no fear in sharing it, if site improvements are involved, then the date of the survey is important and limits the liability unless an error or other problem with the work is discovered. If asked to do a boundary survey and also asked for a site map, there are two drawings produced, one to be filed, and the other a site drawing showing site details using the boundary survey as a reference. The site work is not filed, improvements change over time, unless a boundary is moved by intent, boundary's remain stable, even if ownership has shifted the original boundary location does not.
There are areas in the nation where the term Survey has different meanings and the biggest differences are between recording and non-recording states. Those differences sometimes are not taken into account.
jud
Do not provide anything to them without updating the previous survey and charging for it. Previously I have posted on this forum about another surveyor who provided a copy of an old survey that was used at a new closing. He was held liable because there had been some changes to the buildings.
If they give you any problems about charging, you should ask them if there was a discount for the title work because they only had to research back to 2004. I'm sure the title company charged full price.
I would have a serious businessman-to-businessman discussion with the new owner....IN PERSON. There would be a discussion about the needs he has and how I can help him meet those needs. He WILL NOT be handed a disc with the AutoCAD file of the prior project under any circumstance. Either I will be involved in his new plans or he will only receive a hard copy of the original survey...which he could get at the courthouse anyway.
