I know we've gone around this topic many times..
(NOTE: In Florida, NOT a recording required state. Own my business, but did not start it, so some of these maps have never been updated by me in the last 7 years)
But, I seem to be inundated with it lately.
Realtors or buyers drop in or call and say, hey, can I buy a copy of that old survey from 1998 or 2008 or whatever. I don't really need an ACTUAL survey, I just want to rely on a map that doesn't cost anything.
My reply is usually something like this... If your client has questions related to a survey issue, please have them contact me and I will be happy to discuss it with them directly. I do not sell copies of old surveys.
No matter how many times I explain myself, people just don't get it. Maybe I should just put together a huge disclaimer form for them to sign and tell them it's $400 for a reference copy.
I tell them if they have an old copy, they can clearly do whatever they want with it, but if it comes out of my office, it will be current. Am I being obnoxious??
Andy,
Realtors and buyers must buy new surveys.
We usually provide original clients copies of the surveys we've prepared for them in the past at no charge along with the suggestion they have us complete an update.
Obnoxious G B-)
I have (rarely) stripped the border and cert text off of a survey and printed it for some folks.
Other than that, I'm behind you 100%. Charge what you want for archival copies, if you have the time to fool with it. If you don't have time, tell them to jump in the lake.
> I have (rarely) stripped the border and cert text off of a survey and printed it for some folks.
>
I have done this before. Some people just need a map to know roughly where their lines are.
I have had an archive retrieval fee of
$500 for all jobs older than two years
since 2008
(This is Calif so the initial survey was ~2-3k)
I only allow additional copy purchase if I did the survey for you. Not your dead mom, uncle ex wife.......nobody but the person on the survey and I do ask for identification. After two years there is a $100.00 archive retrieval fee. I have people catch a major attitude over this but I can assure you that these same people would refuse to work for free.
Being in a recording state, this is a rare situation. The former client can have additional copies. No big deal. Anyone else, I suggest they go to the courthouse and get a copy of that one and any others that directly influence their property. How do I know but what there may have been another survey done on the same tract since I did one 20 years ago? Or, one on an adjoiner tract that disagrees with mine.
This has come up time and time again at our regional meetings. There is the "no way, no how camp" and then there is the fellow, a very good, respected surveyor, who has acquired extensive old records from several now defunct firms. He will SELL an old survey copy, for about $150 or so, I think. ALL map copies are stamped as a historical copy, not current, and his firm name and info. Once in a while he gets an update.
The day of the title survey will never be what it once was. That is a reality. His take on it is at least he gets paid for having the records. Sending a crew out to do a proper update does not yield much more profit, if any. I am not sure if selling the copies is really a bad thing. Business wise it is probably a good thing.
KS
If monuments were set during that survey and there is remaining evidence, you are obligated to provide any with justification and wanting a copy of the original survey as provided at the time the survey was done a copy, that includes includes neighbors. Nothing beyond that, an update or field check is new work. Nothing wrong with charging a small fee for a copy of the original drawing. What we do as surveyors has a very long term impact on boundary's and the remaining evidence of today of an old survey should be as good now as it ever was. I don't consider a site map showing improvements as a boundary survey, they should be two different different and separate things, one effects stable boundary's and the other is only a temporary drawing that uses a known boundary for a reference and is only good for the one thing at the time it was prepared to do.
jud
I have more luck with the direct explanation ie/ "I have something you want. It doesn't matter how much it cost me. I do this for food. How much is it worth to you?" than with trying to explain the ins and outs of liability and boundary evidence.
Yes! I use that approach to. I collect and sell information. It's my business, not a hobby!
Couldn't disagree more with the idea that I'm bound to provide copies of my maps to neighbors.
> I collect and sell information. It's my business, not a hobby!
And you want to sell only RELIABLE information. The older records are mostly for your own use in preparing RELIABLE current maps, I'd think.
The nicest thing about handing out copies is 1) the broker gives
it to another surveyor who undercut you by $100 2) the broker or
next surveyor recommends you get sued for a minor mistake.
3) the property has changed from rural to commercial, the price has
tripled, and your liability has tripled.
My reply is: "I can only give a copy of the survey to the person that paid for it, please have Mr or Mrs X give me a call and they can pick it up."
I have a form I use, in order not to waste time on the phone. When the request is made I merely tell them I'll fax or email the form for them to fill out. Once they even filled it out and sent it back and I made some profit on my own terms. Not sure how to insert it here, but your welcome to it if you want to send me an email.
Like most things - it depends.
It depends on: who it is; how old the survey is; what they say they need it for; what I think they need it for; whether I made/lost money on the job; if I think that it'll increase my liability; if it takes away from my drinking time.
Usually, I only get requests like this from the original client. What I also get sometimes is a request from a new land owner, asking for a CAD file of the survey to be used by an engineer. And they and the engineer seem incredulous that I decline giving them that.
Most of my surveys are recorded by the county.
I refer requests from third parties to the survey to the official records.
When I hear a squeak from a realtor like "We just want a revised copy with today's date on it" I have a conversation ready for them.
copies of surveys A New Twist
When I worked for a private Surveying Firm 20+ Years ago, I signed a few plats. That was probably a mistake, as I had no ownership interest in the firm, but my predecessor also signed plats.
When I got my licensee, one of my mentors gave me an embossed seal to use for my plats. I always thought it made my plats look more professional to use the embossed seal, and would prevent unauthorized copies, so I used it on 99% of the plats that I signed.
We kept an unsealed and unsigned original velum drawing in the files to make blue line copies from. A few months after I left, my former boss sold his records to another company and shut down the business. There is a signed and dated certification on the plat, but no surveyors seal.
We are a recording state, and all of my surveys are filed with the State Surveyors Office, but only scanned copies are available online, and they do not show my seal. We mailed in Blue Line copies for them to file. Those Blue Line copies were each embossed and signed, and are what they scanned and have now posted online.
Every now and then, someone tracks me down, and asks me to provide them with another copy of an old survey, with a seal on it. The first one was an ALTA survey of a Wal-Mart site that I had done 6 years before. They told me that all I had to do was sign it, and put today’s date on it, so they could close in 3 days. I politely declined. At the time, I did not own an instrument or pin finder so I could not even offer to do an update, if I had wanted to.
What liability would the new owners of these records have, if they gave a copy to a third party? Do I have any liability?.
copies of surveys A New Twist
Steve,
See A.C.A. § 16-56-112 (2011) Statue of repose.
DDSM