Construction staking procedures

Also found a book by Wesley Crawford entitled http://www.amazon.com/Construction-Surveying-Layout-Step---Step/dp/096474211X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1453223580&sr=1-2&keywords=CONSTRUCTION+LAYOUT&apos ;">Construction Surveying and Layout: A Step-By-Step Field Engineering Methods Manual (3rd Edition)

And another book by Paul Stull entitled http://www.amazon.com/Construction-Surveying-Layout-Paul-Stull/dp/1557013632/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1453223580&sr=1-3&keywords=CONSTRUCTION+LAYOUT&apos ;">Construction Surveying & Layout

Both appear to have good ratings.

Dear Al:

My whole career has been construction and I would advise steady communication with the contractor and the operator. They know what they need to understand how to build a project in accordance with the plan and specification. Communication with the people on the team is all you need. They probably never read any books either.

The books that are written are probably old and the information contained therein is out of date. Most people are out of date. People hold on to stodgy ideas and will fight tooth and nail for tradition. They do not accept challenges and do not do their own thinking. That is too bad.

Every construction endeavor is like a problem to be solved. Every construction project is a team effort. Don‰Ûªt make rules, make friends. The book I glanced at recently was describing a technique known as ‰ÛÏclapping a 90‰Û to stake out. What a laughable and pathetic waste of time for anyone following this advice.

Technology enables me to work quickly and accurately. When the board of directors asked me who should be on my team for their construction project I told them to just the smartest people you could find and preferably not having any knowledge of the ‰ÛÏold ways‰Û of surveying.

Good luck.

Thanks. I agree, steady communication is key. Still, I think it might help for me to read on the subject.

I have Wesley Crawford's book, (the second edition), and it is a good reference. It gives a good breakdown on some techniques and basics, and also helps explain some of a few more complex things I personally had not encountered in my career. It was definitely worth the money I spent on it, and recently referenced it for one of my crews who needed to brush up on some slope staking.

This book, http://www.amazon.com/Surveying-Layout-Fundamentals-Construction-Holley/dp/0471783897&apos ;">Surveying Layout, is by Paul Holley, who was a frequent contributor to the RPLS.com at the time it was published. He died not long after in a motorcycle accident as I recall. I've never seen the book but it was well spoken of at the time. Perhaps someone who has seen it can comment.

Dear Al:

I know nothing about slope staking, batter boards, plumb bobs or chains. That is history as far as I am concerned. When I arrive at a site I sometimes need to say two things. First, forget everything you know about surveying if you hire me. Second, remember that I am the surveyor and you‰Ûªre not. If you let me drive the bulldozer then you can be the surveyor. A little humor goes a long way.

As far as reading goes I would probably read how to maximize the data collector as a field computer. The contractor will busy themselves with whatever they can accomplish on any given day. A lot depends on what materials arrived on site. Team up with the contractor‰Ûªs superintendent or project manager early in the morning to see what might happen that day. Be ready for anything.

A computer with a working three dimensional model of the project and a way to easily translate data into workable ‰ÛÏstake-out‰Û information on site will make you a valuable part of the team. I use menu driven software that allows me to stake a point from a base line at any offset or station with a cut or fill in an instant. That may be analogous to slope staking.

I think abstractly which is how I became an engineer and surveyor in construction. How do I use the electronic equipment to give the contractors what they want? I read the manual of my CAD system, the manual of my data collector and avail myself to the training I received as a civil engineer.

I hope I see you out there!

I've got of copy of Building Layout by WP Jackson
https://books.google.com/books/about/Building_Layout.html?id=vHL81VkCnegC
It's old school but shows how a contractor might do layout.

I always ask the contractor not only what they need staked, but how they are going to use the points I set. In other words, are they going to drive a nail next to my tack and pull a string tight to another corner? Are they going to set their own instrument up on my point and extend line/ turn 90's to set marks on their own batter boards? Factors like this will determine the "permanence" of the point I set.
If the client wants 4' offsets and there's a swampy hole at that location, what can I do to give him something useful so I don't have to make another trip?
Be ready to calculate anything in the field. We are liked by contractors because we can think on our feet. No more, "I can't stake that because the office didn't give me any info on that."

While it is wise to have a set of SOP's for staking, knowledge and experience of local ways of construction will be necessary to be effective. Every contractor has different machinery and ways of doing things. Heck, each different crew by the same contractor seems to do things a bit different.

My 2å¢, checks, checks, and more checks!

Be aware that staking methods, not necessarily the methods of placing points in the ground, but the patterns of stakes placed and the abbreviations and markings for particular features tend to have regional distinctions that can be very different. I did a lot of staking in the first few years of my career in MI and then took a job as a party chief in southeastern PA.

One of the first jobs I was sent out on was to stake curb for several streets in a new residential subdivision. I staked several hundred feet of curb exactly as I would have in MI. The next morning we show up to finish the rest, feeling comfortable that we were a full day ahead of the concrete crew. The grade checker came over as soon as he saw us and started hollering about having no stakes to set his string line from. After getting him to shut up long enough to walk back and show me what he was talking about, I saw that all of our stakes were still there.

After I showed him that the stakes were all there, that started him all over again. The offsets were wrong, the way I marked the offset was wrong, even the type of stakes we used were wrong. It was all perfectly usable and perfectly understandable, for the curb crews I knew in MI. But this guy had never seen it like this so was at a loss. After he calmed down a bit, he was able to understand the stakes with a little explanation and we were able to stake the rest of the job at the offset, with the markings, and with the kind of stakes he was used to.

As was said above, good communication with the contractor and the client is critical. Had there been anyone on site on our first day of staking, we could have avoided the confusion. That was the day I learned that construction staking can be very different by region. For the next several weeks, anytime I had a staking assignment for something type of feature I hadn't staked out of that office yet, I didn't start until I spoke to my boss or one of the other more experienced chiefs for a couple minutes about typical staking for such features, and then whenever possible, spoke to the job super or the grade checker about specifics or any special situations that might exist on the project.

That lesson served me well when I relocated to WA and again when I came to CA.

The moral of the story: Get a good reference that will show the general methods of putting points in the ground and give you a good general feel for what stakes are necessary to build different features, but then talk to a local experienced construction staking chief about typical staking in your area (i.e. typical offset distances for various underground and various surface features, typical station spacing, typical symbols and abbreviations used), and whenever possible, talk to whoever is going to be using your stakes before you start staking to see if they want or need something that isn't typical. One example might be that it may be typical to stake storm drain at 50' stationing, 10' offsets, with 10' & 15' off at structures. But the pipe crew you're working with might be very comfortable with their pipe laser and only require one offset at one station along lines between structures at 25' or 30' from the low end in order to check the slope setting on their laser and then be comfortable and competent to run the remaining 280' without any more intermediate stakes - saves you a lot of work. They may also prefer 12' & 20' at the structures.

Generally, the contractors are going to (rightly) expect you to know how to place the stakes in the right place (the same knowledge you'd use wherever you're working in the world), be familiar with the typical methods of stake patterns, stake marking, and documentation provided (cut sheets, diagrams, etc.), and expect or appreciate your consulting with them as to project or site specific needs.

Through the years I have learned contractors have a varying degrees of stakeout/layout knowledge. Some need their hand held, while others can use two control points with coordinates and build anything. I suggest the first meeting should be at my office.

I find with plans from architects, a lot of adding has to be done to get the required distances and quite often I find errors. We try and get all that ironed out before I hit the job site.

I review the plans with the foreman and get an understanding of what they want staked and how they want it staked.
Some want corners staked, some want 5' corner offsets and some want 10' corner offsets staked. Some want a radius, pt and pc while others want the arc staked every 5'. I mark up his plans and mine his stake out instructions.

We recently have had a terrible issues with contractors and engineers not giving out the most current set of plans to all parties involved. Being hounded to stake a parking lot or wall with antiquated plans can be a real pain. We also have the people who ordered the work sign off that we have the most current set and still end up with an old set. Always check the revisions! Be ready to re-invent site control on the spot.

not my real name, post: 353875, member: 8199 wrote: When the board of directors asked me who should be on my team for their construction project I told them to just the smartest people you could find and preferably not having any knowledge of the ‰ÛÏold ways‰Û of surveying.

Knowing how to swede, pace, 3-4-5 a triangle, use a plumb bob, pull a whamy (another term for "clapping a 90"), eyeball line etc. are all still valid skills to have in your tool box. When the gun is in the box at the end of the day these skills help us have a gut check on our work, which is important.

Just as being shackled to the old ways holds a person back, looking to technology for all the answers restricts a persons horizons. It is important to take a holistic approach.

party chef, post: 353940, member: 98 wrote: Knowing how to swede, pace, 3-4-5 a triangle, use a plumb bob, pull a whamy (another term for "clapping a 90"), eyeball line etc. are all still valid skills to have in your tool box. When the gun is in the box at the end of the day these skills help us have a gut check on our work, which is important.

Just as being shackled to the old ways holds a person back, looking to technology for all the answers restricts a persons horizons. It is important to take a holistic approach.

Dear Party Chef:

I will agree that any method you use to check your work is good. Checking is always good. I know if it doesn't look right it probably isn't.

We used to say: "To err is human... but to really screw up you'll need a computer."

Redundant observations with the survey instrument is a good field check that I use before construction begins. Storing the positions in the data collector and then downloading to see if they match the big picture is another.

Thank you for your reply.

P.S. What is swede?

I agree that most 'layout books' are antiquated. I would add that you absolutely need to be on the same page as the concrete guy, which will need something different than the road/parking lot guy, who could not careless with what the said concrete guy needs (unless its ll one G.C.).

Also, spend almost as much time (if not more) checking your work as you did setting your work. If possible have the foreman sign off that what you gave him is based on plans dated xx/xx/xxxx and that you are not responsible for plans that you do not have.

by $0.04

I also feel the same as others have mentioned....

Obviously communication is key.

But I also too feel that some contractors are more experienced than others (which is natural) Some I feel literally spent the night before in bed trying to figure out how to do the lay out. When I get there and they ask for what they have concocted, I shake my head with a smile and tell them what I would suggest. 9 out if 10 times they say "oh wow yea that sounds much easier!" Some are stubborn and think 10 stakes in every possible direction are needed for a single corners. If so, so be it, but I'll charge accordingly, unless his way seems to be potentially hazardous to the future understanding of the layout on the site. Then I won't.

I've staked many of houses only to weeks later have to restake it because they never gave us a revised plan. In fact tomorrow I will be restaking a house due to this.

And always check the architects plans before heading out. I find errors all the time. Usually on not labeled dimensions. Not labelled for a reason. It still bugs me that some architects think it's ok to hand draw plans. And then they don't even work right. And then ask us to plot them to see if they fit in the setbacks....

I just want to say thanks for all the great posts and the sage advice on this thread. It is invaluable to me. SurveyorConnect is a great resource!

Hey, big al,
I worked at O'hare field in Chicago. Const staking.
I had a boss, that was excellent. Every project we went to, our first stop was the field office. Talk to super.
"So, what are we doing today?"
They'd tell us. If we thought we saw a better way, we'd ask, "would this be ok?"
We made many happy const crews. By communicating.
"Any special instructions?"
Keep it light. Keep it running.
The surveyor is the custodian of the overview.
If the project goes well. Everybody is happy.
We did 4 jobs, in 3 states, in one day.
Hard work, but fulfilling.
An attitude of enjoying it, goes a long ways.