At what point is it unprofessional to file a complaint towards another professional without first contacting him?
Prior to issuing a complaint, should a fellow licensee first make contact with him?
By not doing so, is it an ethics violation?
I believe that it is proper to contact another surveyor when you find something different and/or something they did not find on their survey.
Give them the opportunity to hear about your findings and see what they have to say.
The rules we live by are at the discretion of the sitting members of the BOR and their interpretation of what is and what is not written.
😉
Depends on the gravity of the complaint.
If the magnitude of the issue is so great that your only recourse is to file with the BOR than you must.
If the issue is of less importance in the general scheme of things, I would think that a discussion/confrontation with the surveyor is the best action.
I think some states require you to contact the alleged violator - others do not. So beyond that I think the issue of the gravity of the situation is a valid response.
> At what point is it unprofessional to file a complaint towards another professional without first contacting him?
>
> Prior to issuing a complaint, should a fellow licensee first make contact with him?
>
> By not doing so, is it an ethics violation?
Here in Florida, your dog can file a complaint.
With your attorney's blessing, file your own "ethics" complaint against said fellow licensee and see if anything sticks. You do have an attorney, right? 😉
Let's not make any assumptions now.... our friend Bob did not say if he was filing the complaint or if the complaint was/is directed at him....;-)
I'd contact him, just for my own ethics, for the sake of looking for anything that would stop me from filing the complaint.
Is this you filing the complaint, or has someone filed one on you?
N
> Let's not make any assumptions now.... our friend Bob did not say if he was filing the complaint or if the complaint was/is directed at him....;-)
True...just figured this may be related...
[msg=216872]Almost a year ago[/msg]
I am not sure of how ethics is really the issue here. It is more a case of trying to understand why one professional disagrees with another one over one or more business related matters. One should get to know the other person as much as possible to help understand why that other person is not conforming to some standard procedures. Is it ignorance or carelessness or bad oversight of employees or a strong disrespect for "rules" or simply financial greed? A little conversation might help with a couple of those things or it might not help one bit.
Nevertheless, filing a complaint that could lead to someone losing their license is an EXTREMELY serious action. One should first take a very hard look at what would happen if someone else were to file a complaint against them. What would they lose? How would they and their family and co-workers be impacted? As has been proven on this board many times, having an opinion doesn't mean that it is a valid opinion, it simply means it is your opinion.
I am in the camp of those who most assuredly would demand to know my attacker. Their ignorance or arrogance should not be my problem, nor anyone else's.
Oklahoma Stats & Regs
In Oklahoma an anonymous complaint can be made against a licensee and evidence against said licensee can also be submitted anonymously. But it plainly states if any questions arise concerning the submitted evidence such complaints can be difficult to investigate if there is no one to clarify the submittals.
In the course of mandatory research and investigation our minimum standards tell us:
"In the event of the discovery of a material disagreement with the work of another surveyor, the surveyor shall make reasonable efforts to contact the other surveyor in an attempt to resolve the disagreement."
So basically a complaint can be made anonymously. But if it is made by another licensed surveyor, the complainant would be guilty of not meeting minimum standards if he or she did not first attempt to contact the alleged offender.
All this, of course, is assuming the complaint has to do with the execution of a survey. If it concerned the execution of a client or an architect, it would probably be a different story. 😉
I rarely take an issue to a third party without attempting to resolve it one on one first. That being said, some folks simply cant be dealt with. I would say make a reasonable attempt at resolution before contacting the Board.
You contact your peers if you think they might have made an error, as you hope they would contact you. But you never send a complaint to the BOR about an error. We all make them, some more than others.
I have filed several complaints about gross fraud, or exceptional incompetence, or repeated demonstrations of refusal to file a record of survey. Not much to talk about when you catch someone who has obviously faked the entire survey, doesn't grasp even the basics of surveying, or has made it clear the recording laws don't apply to them and they are not going to file, period.
I am preparing to send someone to the BOR. (My first time)
At first I called him with no return to my message.
I have just about completed the plan. I have sent it to him by certified mail with the reference to the 5 plans he has completed that I have found to be grossly erroneous. No return call or letter.
I have spoken with other surveyors who all have similar complaints about the individual. I plan to have a group of surveyors submit either simultaneously or together to eliminate this man's license forever.
The best example: He has a plan. The record deeds call for 3 rings of stones in a N S orientation, 10 rods and 15 rods apart. I found all 3 and held them. They match the stones to the east.
His plan shows 2 of the rings and he used them for line and held a distance from a road which is the wrong starting point (starting north of Halls' Path does not mean start from the north edge of Hall's Path).
Someone purchased one of the lots and I informed their engineer of the 50' to 70' flaw in the original plan. I flagged the stones that were in the middle of the lot. This surveyor put an affidavit on record stating he relied on stones and blazed trees. All the trees in the area are too young to have blazes from the 1800's (when the original parcel was created) and there are horse paths marked by blazed trees. Add insult to injury: he did not show any blazed trees on his plan.
The buyer built his home right on top of the ring of stones.
there are 2 kinds of surveyors. the first kind makes honest errors and when notified, fix their oversight or misjudgement in a timely manner. The State Board will ask for the same response from a respondent if there has been a clear violation of statutes.
The second kind make no errors. Calling them not only results in stubborn defiance and defense of their work, but retaliation. They will go to the gates of hell rather than admit that their multiple monument that causes harm to several landowners is not warranted and should be removed, or, whatever their violation is. These surveyors who refuse to fix their errors, or are unaware of the laws or otherwise fail to comply on a routine basis, are the ones who should be turned in. There is no ethical standard to contact them first unless your state requires it. If anything, it is unethical NOT to file a complaint against a known violator - but I have never heard of that specific ethic being enforced - and it is not widely supported as an ethic anyway.
ww co pls
- Have a nice day! Or, may your monument prevail over some guy's touchscreen
It is astonishing how many surveyors flat out refuse to correct a horribly bad survey.
I talked to one surveyor several times on the phone and once eyeball to eyeball, and I made it clear he was in danger of another suspension (he had been before the BOR multiple times over two decades). He had failed to show a road inside the property, had called out someone else's monuments as set, etc., etc. He was pleasant and courteous, but no, he would not comply.
Another serial offender seemed to think if he didn't set any monuments, or set just nails or wood stakes, he didn't have to file a record of survey, and he indeed refused to file.
And then, it amazes me how often a surveyor, disciplined by the BOR for failing to file, will then file a record of survey which clearly demonstrates incompetence. You would think, knowing he is under the microscope, he would be extra careful.
Bottom line: Some of our peers just don't care, period.
