Call from the tertiary "client"

> So, I get a call from a woman who says she has a copy of a survey I did for her next door neighbor in 2003.
> The survey shows her fence 12’ onto said neighbor. Said neighbor has recently sold the house, passed along my '03 survey to the new owners, and the new owners approached her with the survey and said “move the fence”.
> Her call to me was to see if I’d come out and verify my fence location. I said I would, but she’d need to pay for my time. This pay thing, obviously, was quite shocking to her.
> Anyway, I pull out the file and the plat and have checked it all out and it looks ok on the paper side of the situation.
> Then I started thinking:
> 1) If the fence has been there for 9 years, even after the neighbor was aware of the fence being over the line (from my survey), and for about 15 years in total, can she claim an easement by acquiescence?
> 2) If the neighbor, when he sold the house, signed an affidavit of survey, does he effectively assume any or all liability if my fence location were proven to be incorrect?
> 3) I am beginning to think that she should have her own survey made, and if that shows my fence location to be in error, we can move on from there. She’s going to have to have a surveyor out there anyway at some point to mark the line for the fence relocation if my plat is proven true.
> How would you move forward with this?
> Thx
>
>
>

First I would make a site visit personally and see if I can find a reason to either agree or disagree(hopefully not) with my own survey. Then I would check my own work on my own dime. Then I would contact the woman who called and have a conversation to her. I would also contact her neighbor.

Checking your work is never a bad idea. You stamped it, don't you own it forever? That is probably one of the reasons hard alcohol is the best gift for a newly licensed surveyor.

Acquiescence... perhaps or did they give her verbal permission to have the fence over the line after they received your survey? I always tell people to be nice and give permission. It makes for good neighbors and difficult adverse possession claims.

Good luck, I hope it works out.

The new owner obtained title insurance without a new survey.

Her claim is not backed by anything and the tile company will probably not take her claim, probably because it is excepted from her policy.

If you do anything and put it on paper you will probably be renewing any liability that may have expired.

I would think that it is the sellers place to make any assurance whether there is any stand to take in making any claim.

IMHO of the matter, it is beyond a surveying to fix. Your survey shows what was in 2003. You don't know what has been claimed or set in motion since then.

No matter what you say or do, it is dependent upon legal advise to what happens now.

😉

The late James Noble Johnson a great attorney and former chairman of TBPLS had a story about this type of scenario.
When he was in the Army they stacked several wooden crates up out at the firing range and the instructor then knelt with his back to the crates and fired a rocket launcher which blew several of the crates to pieces … the moral of the story … Stay out of the Back Blast Zone!

don't over think. treat it as new survey. in fact it is, you have surveyed the adjoiner but not this lot. show the facts. if the fence is over, she needs to move it. charge as if it were a new survey.

In Original Survey, Did You Locate All Corners Of Neighbor?

If not, you darn well better do it now at your own expense.

The best defense is a good offense.

Paul in PA

"1) If the fence has been there for 9 years, even after the neighbor was aware of the fence being over the line (from my survey), and for about 15 years in total, can she claim an easement by acquiescence?
2) If the neighbor, when he sold the house, signed an affidavit of survey, does he effectively assume any or all liability if my fence location were proven to be incorrect?
3) I am beginning to think that she should have her own survey made, and if that shows my fence location to be in error, we can move on from there. "

1. Its not an easement issue, its an ownership by adverse possession issue.

2. What in the world is an "affidavit of survey"?

3. You don't want to wind up having done a survey both parties - that would be a conflict of interest.

>
> 3. You don't want to wind up having done a survey both parties - that would be a conflict of interest.

bull puckey

the surveyor #1 responsibility is to protect the public not to an individual client. expose, report the problem offer a solution but charge accordingly and be independent of favor.

Affidavit of Survey

Over ten years ago when there was tumultuous uproar about the cost of Land Surveys from HUD & FannieMae; the title companies came up with an “Affidavit of Survey” which the land/home owner signed during the closing process stating that nothing had changed since the copy of the survey they were using during the closing process. The copy of the survey could be a year old or a hundred years old as long as the buyer signed the “Affidavit of Survey”! The title company could then absolve themselves from any title issues that a new survey would reveal. I vehemently objected to this tactic to all my political representatives to no avail because this process put the home owner in a position of the Land Surveyor, which they were not qualified to assume.

If she is asking you to verify that the location of the fence is correctly shown on your survey drawing, you know, the one you signed and sealed, then you better verify it on your dime. If she is asking for anything else, then you get to charge her for a survey.

I've told everyone I know that if they have the slightest hint of a whiff of a suspicion that what I did might not be correct, please call me and I'll drop everything to go check it, no charge. That is the best way to stay out of trouble. Get defensive or obstinate and you are asking for it.

Bruce, true words those are.

I had a call from an adjoiner (I had given her my card because I used her road for access). We followed some blazed line through the forest. It looked good. She called me and questioned one blazed tree at the road.

So I talked to my Supervisor and said I think we should check that line and he agrees. So we are going to survey all around her 40 acre aliquot (3 sides are common with the State Forest).

I called her back and told her we are going to check it out and she seemed relieved that we are actually responsive to a question like that. The aliquot was monumented in the 1970s on a Record of Survey by a Surveyor who did good work; she knows about the corners and doesn't question them.

We simply can not afford litigation, it costs too much, takes too much time in years and takes up too much staff time. It's better to nip these problems in the bud.

This is a legal issue, not a survey issue. To protect yourself, a bit of stealth surveying might be in order to verify you didn't make any errors in your 2003 work. Recommend a good real estate-knowledgeable attorney be consulted before she does anything else.

You do not have any part of the current dispute other than your work from 2003. Keep it that way until one party or the other offers to hire you to survey one property or the other.

That's the way I'm going. I'll ride out there tomorrow and re-check the line on my time. If everything checks, I'm just going to leave it alone. If indeed, I have a bad shot on the fence, and She doesn't have to move the fence. Done.
I'll post what transpires.

I'll check back in the morning. My grandkid is calling.....:-)

...but, JB this is a huge topic and will likely go into several other threads. Great idea and hope it does.

Short answer is don't do shyte for anybody. Give it time, perhaps refer her to another surveyor.

That's my short answer, but I may have to look up "tertiary".... it's been a while...;-)

Go Red Wings!!

First comes firstiary
Second comes secondary
Third and more comes tertiary
Too much information becomes diary.

Well if that message wasn't from such a higher power as our favorite Cow I would take it lightly. Not so....;-)

So it's all about the numbers then? ...hmmm... never figured that.

So.... then when the Red Wings win the Stanley Cup it will be Twelvetiary? It may be Thirteenthiary but gotta google that. I hope I'm wrong and it's more like Forevertiery...

See ya'll in June at The Joe!!!

PS - no hijack intended, just havin' fun... so please continue with your thoughts

there is a difference between an apparent conflict of interest and an actual conflict of interest. you can rise above an apparent conflict easily.

last time i was in this situation, i gave my field information to Don (foggyidea) and he surveyed the other side of the line, hopefully for a very reasonable rate. the gal he surveyed for is a friend and my clients are not, but they came to me first and when the manure hit the fan I knew I should not go to the other side or i'd be stuck in the middle.

Definition

ter·ti·ar·y? ?/?t?r?i??ri, ?t?r??ri/ Show Spelled [tur-shee-er-ee, tur-shuh-ree] Show IPA adjective, noun, plural -ar·ies.
adjective
1. of the third order, rank, stage, formation, etc.; third.
2. Chemistry .
a. noting or containing a carbon atom united to three other carbon atoms.
b. formed by replacement of three atoms or groups.
3. ( initial capital letter ) Geology . noting or pertaining to the period forming the earlier part of the Cenozoic Era, occurring from 65 million to 2 million years ago, characterized by the development and proliferation of mammals.
4. Ornithology . tertial.
5. Ecclesiastical . noting or pertaining to a branch, or third order, of certain religious orders that consists of lay members living in community (regular tertiaries) or living in the world (secular tertiaries).

I don't know how long you're liable for a survey in NC, but if this was in Tennessee, I wouldn't set foot on the job without doing a new survey. In TN, we're liable for the survey for 4 years after the date on the plat and no longer.