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Building stakeout using a total station and a scale factor

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ramses
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@dave-lindell 10mm is about 3/8". Nobody will shorten any beams. The commonly used procedure to plumb the columns is to enlarge the holes around the bolts with a blow torch and hit the base plate with a sledgehammer until the column is plumb.


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 3:10 am
bill93
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Posted by: @ramses

how would you put a scale factor on that? ... I think a scale factor >1 should be used.

Steel expands about 12 ppm per degree C.

I'm not going to tackle the definition of the factor as X vs 1/X.


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 5:40 am
not-my-real-name
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Are the beams prefabricated, and do they have shop drawings of each beam? Perhaps, then you will be able to tell what scale to use by comparing the shop dimensions with the contract documents.?ÿ


Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.

 
Posted : June 23, 2020 7:25 am
jaro
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@tim-v-pls

But if the project was done on State Plane, a scale factor would be needed just to get true ground distances. Without the project info, how are we to know?


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 8:01 am
holy-cow
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Why report in fictional state plane in the first place for a small construction project??ÿ For that matter, a five mile stretch of highway construction requiring certain factors would not require those factors to be applied to the abutments and steel of each bridge/culvert.?ÿ "Sorry, boys, that 3-12x12x80 box culvert is really 3-11.96x11.96x79.73."?ÿ I want to see the standard forms being cut to fit.


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 9:32 am

Norman_Oklahoma
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@wa-id-surveyor

Another great case for using LDPs, were scale factors are near enough to 1.0000 to ignore. 


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 9:59 am
bill93
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The discussion has gone to projections, but did you see what the original poster said on page 2 of this thread?

Actually he did mention somenthing about the expansion and contraction of?ÿ steel with the temperature

Is this something usually taken into account on large steel structures?


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 10:10 am
holy-cow
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Bolt locations need to be standard. The potential for expansion/contraction should be addressed in the holes fitting the over the bolts.


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 10:16 am
ramses
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@bill93 I did a 2624' long building about 4 years ago and I used 1 as a scale factor. All the columns and beams were installed without any hiccups, so I'm  assuming the temperature corrections are actually built into the structural elements, read larger holes around the bolts.


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 2:20 pm
ramses
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@holy-cow My thoughts,  exactly. 


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 2:21 pm

MightyMoe
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All design surveys and staking surveys should always be done at surface, that doesn't necessarily mean a scale factor of 1. It does mean that a tape, total station, gps should measure the same distance along the surface of the earth.?ÿ


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 2:29 pm
ramses
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@tazsurveyor I do work for the concrete contractor. Every year I get to install thousands of sets of anchor bolts of various shapes and sizes, however, this is the first time I've been "forced" to apply a scale factor. I just didn't make a big fuss about it given the small size of the building.


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 2:35 pm
leegreen
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We used a scale factor on the Tappan Zee Bridge aka Mario Cuomo Bridge. The scale was shown on the shop drawings for each longitudinal beam.?ÿ The difference between the grid to the ground for this 3.2-mile bridge amounted to 0.92ft.?ÿ During hot days, the thermal co-efficient for expansion of steel could amount to 0.25" per 1750ft span.

I'm working on a large 500-acre site with three large buildings (700ft). All site is done on State Plane coordinates with GPS no scale, but if done with EDM a scale would be applied. The scale factor on this job would be 0.58ft in?ÿ 10,000ft, and it is inversed. Grid distances are larger than Ground with a CSF of 1.00005829.

We are using BIM coordinate system for all buildings, with no scale factor on EDM. We have four different Survey firms measuring the same anchor bolts. Early on we had differences up to 0.04'. I had to educate the other crews. Some were measuring anchors from 500ft to 1100ft away with S5, then an S6, now an S8 gun. Now we all use the same control, same prism, and measure bolts at the same exact time. Results are now 0.02'.

?ÿ


 
Posted : June 23, 2020 3:25 pm
ramses
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@leegreen Same here Lee. We used the same control points, the same prism (Leica Circular prism), the same person holding the prism ( just rotated towards the instrument that was taking the shot), a pole with a 8' bubble and less than 1mm runout and a bipod, but different files, each created independently.


 
Posted : June 24, 2020 3:14 am
andy-j
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@ramses  YES!  exactly.  I used to do hand drafting for structural steel in another lifetime.  There is always adjustment designed into the fabrication.... whether that is slotted openings or site welded plates etc...  There is always a gap in the connection design.


 
Posted : June 24, 2020 7:40 am

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