I was talking to a contractor that is closing up a job I worked on this summer. His contract was to build five buildings in a complex that was to fill up a new subdivision. The contract to construct the roads, sewer, water, ect. went to another firm. The buildings are all done and the streets and sidewalks and utilities are also completed. The code inspector came up with a problem. He took one of those construction levels that reads slope and determined that parts of the sidewalk had a 2.2% cross slope. ADA max. is 2%. Of course, a 6' sidewalk would only be out 0.01' across its width at .2%. Now the code enforcer is talking about ripping out the sidewalks.
I'm glad I had nothing to do with the streets and sidewalks!
Never mind.
This is wrong on so many levels (pun intended).
Idiots! How is it that so many of them become bureaucratic inspectors?
Good topic
ADA cross and longitudinal slopes are expressed in the MAX percent slope.
Way too often the designer, surveyor and constructor don't consider the construction tolerances involved.
If nothing else, this thread is a good reminder that a conversation should be held with the contractor and/or engineers regarding survey and construction tolerances necessary before staking out a job. Especially for ramps and sidewalks which are being scrutinized to a much higher degree than in the past.
In the area I am from, there is a handicapped person who has teamed up with some attorneys. He travels around with his measuring tape and smart level and files lawsuits against business owners when their ADA facilities don't meet the maximum slope and dimension requirements. Right or wrong, the law is on his side. Maximum slope or width does not include a plus or minus tolerance in the eyes of the law.
Good topic
Those are some good points. All too often minimums and/or maximums are used as design criteria. When the lawsuits start flying it won't matter if you were involved in the problem area, if you were involved in any way you will be named.
Where's the calibration certificate on his equipment? What is its design tolerance?
Good topic
Surveying here in California, I've only been contracted to stake the curb line. The sidewalk layout and construction has always been the contractor's responsibility...unless it's a curvilinear sidewalk. Is this different back east? Are surveyor's required to set stakes for the back of walk also?
"Of course, a 6' sidewalk would only be out 0.01' across its width at .2%."
Wouldn't it be more like 0.12 at 6'?
> "Of course, a 6' sidewalk would only be out 0.01' across its width at .2%."
>
> Wouldn't it be more like 0.12 at 6'?
Re-read his post. The 6' sidewalk is at 2.2%. The extra 0.2% is what is out of tolerance by 0.01. Or in other words, the permissable fall is 0.12' and it is actually 0.13'.
Good topic
No it's basically the same here, but when the lawyers are involved they name every person or entity involved. Just recently the company I worked for last was involved in street and utility staking on a project with developed interior building deficiencies. Everybody was named down to the geotechnical consultant and the thing that irritates me most is that most of them settled rather than fight. The company I worked for paid $20k.
Convert everything to inches and you'll achieve that 1/4" per foot slope, or better yet to metric so as to confuse everybody. Life will soon be good..
MIN slope
ADA cross and longitudinal slopes are expressed in the MAX percent slope.
Yes and drainage requirements are expressed in MIN percent slope and here in snow and ice counrty they want 2%. Good luck meeting both codes!
Thanks, I just went with the 2% only and didn't check the extra .2% for the difference.
Wayne:
Meters are for those people across the ocean and don't belong here. 😛
> Meters are for those people across the ocean and don't belong here. 😛
Yea Leonard, if it wasn't so true it would almost be sad. And who would like to decide if US feet or International feet.
Personally I'd stick with the long held standard of 1/4" per foot. Based on the significant digets concept, that provides for a tolerance of 1/4". Which happens to be 0.0208 ft, or rounded to 0.021 ft.
Therefore the sidewalk is well within compliance and does not require replacement.
As a bonus, we finally found half of the missing 0.04 ft us OCD surveyor types have been chasing for all these years.... it's in the friggin sidewalk...:-P
> Wayne:
>
> Meters are for those people across the ocean and don't belong here. 😛
Lol - If by "across the ocean" you mean over any and all bodies of water in every possible direction with the exception of Liberia and Myanmar, then yes, I agree that they are "across the ocean."
The system we allowed to become the norm will fail, be patent and think a bit before you vote for any of those who support more government control. We are the ones who allow for this to continue to grow, the inspector is only doing the will of those who vote.
jud
I have been asked to stake sidewalks and the answer is no everytime.
We do alot of Walgreens and the close out guy for Walgreens will walk around with a smartass level and check everything . When we do a ADA survey for the project .01' will make or break some areas. I have seen parking lots ripped out over this issue .
ADA v Drainage Slope
I too work in snow and ice country and 2% min x-slope is mandated by most municipalities along with the state highways department.
As the lead engineer and surveyor on quite a number of projects involving ADA sidewalks I have addressed this conflict through an effort of education of all those involved.
Because achieving an exact 2% is impractical, I typically specify a design for 1.8% x-slope with a 0.2% tolerance. I have not encountered any agency oversight persons who fail to recognize that the Federal (and State in my case) ADA requirement governs and the local/state requirement for drainage must yield.