ADA v Drainage Slope
We keep getting more and more rules and laws.
Not less and less.
Jerks.
Good solution, by the way, sorry for the hijack.
Jud,
The inspector is protecting the owner of the project against future litigation in addition to the disabled community.
Without ADA laws to protect the disabled, you can bet the developers, contractors, engineers and surveyors won't be focused on providing accessible facilities.
ADA is good.
I agree, way too many laws. But the ADA laws are good.
Just last week I was tying in some drainage inverts in a small mountain town that had quite a bit of sidewalk ADA work done a few years back.
It caught my attention that there was a huge percentage of folks that were traversing the sidewalks in wheelchairs. (I noticed mostly because I had to keep running to my robotic total station to move it out of their way).
Anyways, I came away that day thinking that those folks now enjoy the power of mobility due solely to the laws which empowered the disabled to dictate how pedestrian facilities are placed.
Lets embrace the ADA instead of bitching about it. It has helped a great many people enjoy the mobility most of us take for granted.
This sidewalk looks ok by me...
... not sure if it is a frost/snow free zone, but sure do hope so for the sake of the pedestrian casually walking safely by on the <2% side slope sidewalk - as the SUV backs out of the garage.
How many thousands of years has man survived without ADA laws? If the past had been regulated like what we now have, mankind would not be here. Just because your only experience is living in an overly regulated world does not mean that it has always been so, it hasn't. The very things we take advantage of and for granted we are busy destroying by regulation, what we had was envisioned and created using other norms than the dead end thinking we embrace today. What all of these regulations is going to accomplish is to stop all construction and renewal projects because of the cost, some aren't willing to consider those practical things but when the results are being triped over, will be among those who complain the loudest.
jud
This sidewalk looks ok by me...
Are you sure this is not Photoshopped?
Chr.
ADA is good.
I think it is more the 0.01' cops (read law pig enforcers) we are bitching about.
This sidewalk looks ok by me...
> Are you sure this is not Photoshopped?
Reasonably certain, but not totally. It just demonstrates the insanity of all these regulations that are in place.
That pix has been all over the internet for 10 plus years. Looking at the trees, I'd say it is definitely in a snow zone. My guess is it's available on a short sale with some extra obamabucks. 😛
There is another one with a utility pole in the c/l of a 8' wide driveway and the new house has a 10' or 15' setback, and that's kind of funny. No way to maneuver that driveway. I couldn't find it though...
The Law Is 2%, Not 2.0% Or 2.00%
There is established legal precedent that the 0.01 difference is de minimus.
My wife's new church had a 4' slab at one doorway with sidewalk sloping to the parking lot and the handicapped spaces. There was a slight lip and the building inspector wanted the slab and sidewalk removed, replaced with a 5' landing etc. I suggested that the contractor grind down the lip with a 2% cross slope, about 9" across. The inspector objected that the slab was only 4' and I pointed out that the requirement for 5' at 2% did not preclude a joint. It stands out a bit because it is shiny, but wear and weather is toning the difference down. Another winter of rock salt should do it.
Paul in PA
Actually, the law is not 2% it is
1:48.
See Section 403.3 of the 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design published by the Department of Justice in the Federal Register.
It states: "The running slope of walking surfaces shall not be steeper than 1:20. The cross slope of walking surfaces shall not be steeper than 1:48.
Paul, I am curious if you can quote a court case that provides the tolerance allowance you describe.
This sidewalk looks ok by me...
A few years ago I spent a day driving around Table Rock Lake at Branson, MO. The picture above is not at all unlike some places that I saw on the south side of the lake. And where I was, if you looked to the left as in this picture, not far off the road you were looking down sharply at the roofs of the houses below. I believe the picture is real!
ADA is good.
I agree Brad. I just like to arg... er, I mean debate, plus I've been pretty immersed in ADA design over the last few years and have some passion for the issue.
ADA is good.
:good: Right on Brother.
:love: Peace & Love (I wish there was a button for the "peace sign")
Jud,
you remind me a lot of a good friend of mine that I used to fell timber with. According to him much of the laws of today are ill conceived and do more harm than good. He argues this point of view with a passion.
However, he never offers well conceived solutions. He never participates in our local government decision making processes. He has never met with a state legislator, or federal congressman, nor corresponded to them about current legislation. His commentary is purely reactive as he has no idea what current legislation is being debated by our lawmakers.
In short, he just likes to pound his chest and spout off about the lawmakers. Myself, I've discovered that the lawmakers are us, those of us that participate in the legislative process that is.
Like I said, you remind me quite a lot of him.
1:48 = 2.0833%
2% or 2.1% is close enough.
Actually the tolerance is based on the least count.
2% is plus or minus quite a bit.
2.0% means get it very close.
2.00% means get it perfect.
In large diameter sanitary sewers getting the precaentage right is more critical at small slopes, like 0.085%. Storm sewers are much more tolerant as they are in the 1% plus range.
The tolerance on 1:48 is 1:47 to 1:49.
Paul in PA
This sidewalk looks ok by me...
Check out 5028 New Bridge Road, Fayetteville, AR 72704 in Google Street View.
DDSM:beer:
1:48 = 2.0833%
Paul, I already said that and nobody cared. Don't sweat the small stuff, its just typical gobment workers justifying their existence....:-P
Would expect such a view from some. I like your description of your old friend, but you miss the point of what he says and how he says it, he is only stating what he has seen happening over time and has evaluated the results in his own mind. He leaves it up to you to choose to listen and learn from his observations and experience or to ignore what he is saying.
jud
ADA is good.
I can remember once sitting in Manhattan traffic (Third Avenue, if I remember correctly), and because of the ADA ramps, a gentleman in a wheel chair was making it uptown faster than I was. Over about twenty blocks, he had me beat, until traffic broke.
Also, it's not as if the requirements weren't known beforehand.....whatever happened to CHECKING before placing the concrete? A standard is a standard....either you meet it or you don't.