I did a boundary last week in an urban setting and found a weird discrepancy, just wondering if I should contact the previous surveyor.?ÿ
The original subdivision was done in the 1930's. The end client owns three adjacent lots, each are 55' wide?ÿ by 105 feet deep. He has a house on part of these three lots. In 2015 the owner (doctor) had a surveyor do a subdivision of the three lots into two lots, everything right angles, but not split exactly in half, one side got 88.5 feet and the other side got 76.5 feet. The idea was to have the existing house on one lot, which he then sold (or is in the process of selling, not sure), and he is going to build a new house on the other lot for himself.?ÿ
I found a city monument in a cast iron box on a 5' offset line at the end of the block, that is shown on the 1930's plan. There is one 55' wide lot after that, and then the subject subdivision. I found the three front corners along the street, and two of the three back corners (one of the original lot corners was not found in 2015 and nothing found now). So the original 3 lot parcel has three of the four corners present, and the dividing line has both pins found.?ÿ
Two of the three original 3-lot corners are older than the other three pins found, which were apparently set in 2015. All have the same cap, but obviously from different times. So the 2015 survey set a pin at one corner of the original 3-lot tract, and set the two new pins marking the dividing line. The pin at the original corner is short by 0.13 feet, but I am not going to worry about that. The next lot corner down the street is long by 0.12 feet, so the adjacent lot is 0.25 feet wider than 55.00 feet in the front, but good in the back
However, the two new pins set in 2015 on the new property line are both offset from where they should be by about 0.43 feet (front one is 0.44 feet, back one is 0.42 feet) parallel to the street. The shortage is on the side where the new house is going, so his lot is narrower than it should be (nominally 76.5 feet). All five found pins check very well with the 5' offset line, within 0.01 feet or where they should be (5' back and 110 feet back from that line). And the two older pins (at opposite corners) also check within 0.02 feet in position (109.98 feet and 220.00 feet from the city monument). So only the two new pins are off, and only in one direction, parallel to the street, making the lot for the new house narrower than it should be, and the other lot with the existing house wider by the same amount.?ÿ The drawing below shows the situation.?ÿ
The purpose of my survey is because they want to build right up to the 5' side setback lines, and the 0.44 affects that. The prior surveyor is actually a client of my client, and before I went out there he told my client that the new work was done by his son. A different surveyor doing the house staking is the one who found the discrepancy. When I went out I not only shot everything with a total station but also chained directly between the front corners and got about 0.01 feet different than the total station (just to make sure that it really was 0.44 feet short).?ÿ
To me it is strange that both the front and back corners are off by the same amount. Of course I am aware that the corners as set SHOULD remain as they are over field measurements. But, I suspect a blunder and nothing has been built yet, so...
would you...
1) Leave it as is (the new house gets built on a slightly smaller lot)
2) Contact the prior surveyor and present the findings, hopefully he will go out and verify/correct
3) set new pins in the correct location and remove/pound down the "incorrect" pins
I lean to #2 or less preferably #1 (i.e. monument as set defines the corner), but I am not sure how the prior surveyor will respond.?ÿ
#2, I always try and contact other surveyors when I am retracing their work and have a question. I appreciate it when colleagues do the same. Seems like you are still at the investigative stage and don't need to move to a final resolution that may be #1 or #3.
Actually, a related question would be if I brought this to your attention, would you call me an idiot and tell me to quit worrying about tenths of a foot, or thank me and say you would look into it, or ...?
It is in an urban area (City of Pittsburgh), so every bit counts. If I go with the narrower lot, the architect/engineer needs to revise the plans because they were going right to the setback lines.?ÿ
there is a time critical aspect. The guy doing the stakeout for the house discovered the discrepancy, and I am looking into this as a favor for my client, and they are ready to build NOW
I'm on the side of contacting the other surveyor.?ÿ I've?ÿhad good luck most of the time with this but you never know how they will react to the call.
#2 (In Arizona that is mandatory)
If I were the surveyor that you call, I would welcome the information, and offer to look into it right away. This sounds like a stake it where the CAD tells me to and the line was trimmed at the lot corner symbol.?ÿ
If that didn't work I call the property owner and tell them what you found. If necessary offer to meet them there and pull our your chain. Actually seeing the discrepancy will be convincing enough that they will tell you what to do next.?ÿ
At this point, since you are aware of the discrepancy (in my state) it is cause for you to file a survey map even if you don't choose to set anything new.?ÿ
Now is the time to do it before the slab is poured.
Well at least no one is telling me to stop worrying about "small" discrepancies. And I don't want to pin cushion it.?ÿ?ÿ
Yeah, I would just call the other surveyor. I've had to do just that a couple times and present the info I had. Both times the other surveyor sent a crew back out to check my findings and agreed. Once of the times the crew just pulled their pins and held mine. Another time the crew took the data back to the office, the surveyor needed time to review it. He called me back a couple days later and said yep, your right but I don't have the budget to send the crew back and move the pins. Can you just do it next time your out there??
Yeah...I don't have the budget to send the crew back and move the pins. Can you just do it next time your out there??
Sure, where should I send the bill?
You could ask your local municipality for a setback variance or have the architect shorten the width of the structure. Then resolve the discrepancy.?ÿ ??ÿ
man, i ALWAYS call.?ÿ and just last week had the favor returned.?ÿ not sure yet what will become of it, other than after reviewing it again 4 years later from scratch (the file is back at the old business), i came to the same conclusion i did back then.
one recently retired dude was reliably a joy to call.?ÿ i never tired of hearing him say "don't you ever f*&*ing call me with this s*&t again."?ÿ especially in light of the fact that he's wrong almost every time you call him.
I contacted a surveyor one time about a 2-foot discrepancy on a record of survey in a 1940s plat. ?ÿI literally found rebars at every corner and his two feet different...and on his ROS he didn't show any found evidence. ?ÿAfter an exahaustive check and re-check on my part I called him up, he said he'd review his survey. ?ÿBeforehand I had 3 other surveyors look at the plat and all agreed, without me showing them, what probably happened. ?ÿ
He called back saying that he did it right but that he intended to retire. ?ÿI said that's fine but I still wanted to meet in person and clear and ambiguity we may have because I was moving forward with my ROS. ?ÿHe said "that is fine...I guess we'll see what the court says." At no point did I accuse--simply wanted to discuss how he read the very old plat. ?ÿ?ÿ
I guess be ready for anything! ?ÿ
Both lots still in same owner, correct it and move on. You can put your pins where they belong, reference the?ÿ wrong pins, add a note that your locations follow the intent of the owner and his subdivision. I would only contact the prior surveyor if the owner wanted the pins pulled, absent that drive them deep. Make sure the deeds of conveyance reference the plat and that you set the pins per the plat.
Paul in PA
Both lots still in same owner, correct it and move on. You can put your pins where they belong, reference the?ÿ wrong pins, add a note that your locations follow the intent of the owner and his subdivision. I would only contact the prior surveyor if the owner wanted the pins pulled, absent that drive them deep. Make sure the deeds of conveyance reference the plat and that you set the pins per the plat.
Paul in PA
IMHO, this is all wrong. You should always have enough respect to contact the other surveyor. He may be able to explain that his monuments are in the correct location. You should NEVER remove any monuments - others may have tied into and/or accepted them. The monuments belong to the landowner (and the adjoiners!) - removing them is theft.
When I get out there and find double sets of monuments by the same surveyor, the options double.
Only one set can be good and the other set can be pulled up and forgotten about, IMVHO.
I was surveying today in an older neighborhood of Portland. Still lots of working class "ethnic" population sitting in front of their?ÿPink Houses?ÿ. But the area is becoming gentrified. One house, new construction, listed for $949,000. An original across the street in good shape was $549,000.?ÿ $500K is about the median for something in need of renovation.
So, in this market, 0.44'?ÿ might as well be 44 feet.?ÿ In fact I'm at the office sweating out 0.12' right now. You bet I'd be calling that other surveyor.?ÿ And if the conversation did not go really well right off the bat I'd just inform him that I would be pulling his pins and sending my findings to the board. That kind of discrepancy doesn't fly around here.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
Both lots still in same owner, correct it and move on. You can put your pins where they belong, reference the?ÿ wrong pins, add a note that your locations follow the intent of the owner and his subdivision. I would only contact the prior surveyor if the owner wanted the pins pulled, absent that drive them deep. Make sure the deeds of conveyance reference the plat and that you set the pins per the plat.
Paul in PA
If?ÿ the same owner still owns both lots I agree with Pal in PA, at least for my particular jurisdiction here in non-recording of surveys Florida. If you have confidence in your work, set the pins at their correct location.?ÿ Who owns the old pins? If the owner directs they be pulled who could prevent it? Presumably the owner paid for them. It's not like the pins are deserving of some hallowed respect, and that pulling them is going to set off some dreaded terror. I would certainly not treat the erroneous pins with some special status to force the reworking of blueprints.?ÿ
Of course I've never worked in that city/state.?ÿ
That's my 0.02
ibenhavin...u?
I was not sure if the house with the lot had been sold, and it has, deed was recorded in June of 2018. So it is two different owners. I am not directly involved with the owners, hopefully they will agree to just move the pins if the surveyor does not do so himself. Waiting to hear back...
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