Guys,
I am looking for a copy (digital or otherwise) of what I think is called "1971 BLM Handbook". It deals with celestial astronomic observations for determining true azimuth.
I would also appreciate any leads on software which I can use to do all the math etc. for that. I have used the ASTRO*CARD for the HP-48 (a co-workers), but have not been able to obtain one. I know that everyone else in the world uses GPS (GNSS), etc., but right now I need "old school".
Thanx in advance,
GZR
j l a s u r v e y at j u n o . c o m
There was a book titled "Ephemeris of the sun, Polaris and other selected stars with companion data and tables" which was published periodically. That may be what you are looking for. Not sure where to get a copy. I guess I'd contact BLM?
Jerry,
There's this 92 page publication from 1978, "Selected computations of astronomical observations"
http://cdm15879.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p15879coll6/id/5152
Here is a discussion from a couple years ago regarding software..Might be able to find some more by searching.
https://surveyorconnect.com/community/threads/solar-observation-program.274741/
Jerry Anderson, post: 394032, member: 11843 wrote: Guys,
I am looking for a copy (digital or otherwise) of what I think is called "1971 BLM Handbook". It deals with celestial astronomic observations for determining true azimuth.
I would also appreciate any leads on software which I can use to do all the math etc. for that. I have used the ASTRO*CARD for the HP-48 (a co-workers), but have not been able to obtain one. I know that everyone else in the world uses GPS (GNSS), etc., but right now I need "old school".
Thanx in advance,
GZR
j l a s u r v e y at j u n o . c o m
Have you checked with your local BLM office? I think the Oregon office has a considerable amount of material online...
Elgin and Knowles did the Ephemeris if you can find one some of them had a free program for Sun Shots for an HP 48, 42 and I think a 41. You might contact Dick Elgin, I think he is still around Columbia, Missouri or David Knowles in the Fayettville, Arkansas area. You might just Google Elgin and Knowles
Jerry Anderson, post: 394032, member: 11843 wrote: Guys,
I am looking for a copy (digital or otherwise) of what I think is called "1971 BLM Handbook". It deals with celestial astronomic observations for determining true azimuth.
I would also appreciate any leads on software which I can use to do all the math etc. for that. I have used the ASTRO*CARD for the HP-48 (a co-workers), but have not been able to obtain one. I know that everyone else in the world uses GPS (GNSS), etc., but right now I need "old school".
Thanx in advance,
GZR
j l a s u r v e y at j u n o . c o m
Jerry:
The BLM quit publishing their ephemeris in 1988. Also, it was based on apparant noon and not midnight as was the K&E & Sokkia version. The BLM was for use with the solar transit and not direct solar observations. The only free ephemeris now that I've been able to find is put out by Jerry Wahl at: www. cadastral.com. When you say "1971 BLM Handbook", just exactly what are you referring to? The BLM used to have several published items, but I don't know of any "Handbook".
I have documented the procedure I used when making an hour angle observation on the sun that I could E-Mail you and a copy of an obsevation in my field book entry format if you would like.
Why? Do you need an old copy of DOS too? I'm having a hard enough time going forward with technology, please don't make me go back too! 🙂 Jp
Charles L. Dowdell, post: 394133, member: 82 wrote: Jerry:
The BLM quit publishing their ephemeris in 1988. Also, it was based on apparant noon and not midnight as was the K&E & Sokkia version. The BLM was for use with the solar transit and not direct solar observations. The only free ephemeris now that I've been able to find is put out by Jerry Wahl at: www. cadastral.com. When you say "1971 BLM Handbook", just exactly what are you referring to? The BLM used to have several published items, but I don't know of any "Handbook".
I have documented the procedure I used when making an hour angle observation on the sun that I could E-Mail you and a copy of an obsevation in my field book entry format if you would like.
Thanx Charles.
I have checked out the sources you mention. I did not know about the difference in time between BLM and Sokkia. Do you have any idea how much difference that makes in the real world to me? I don't have a clue. Will have to investigate that.
Not real sure on the "Handbook". I had talked with an old BLMer a few years ago, and said that the 1971 BLM Handbook outlined steps, procedures, equipment, formulas, etc. Now that I think about it, it would only seem logical for BLM to have an "official" name for it, even though the guys using it would call it something else.
Thanx,
geezer
cordgrass, post: 394140, member: 11027 wrote: http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/reference/default.aspx#id=05_Appendices|07_Surveying_Manuals
Thanx,
I didn't find what I was looking for, but sure found a lot of other stuff I am interested in.
geezer
What's the background driving the inquiry?
Personal edification or are you teaching others?
Jerry Anderson, post: 394169, member: 11843 wrote: Thanx Charles.
I have checked out the sources you mention. I did not know about the difference in time between BLM and Sokkia. Do you have any idea how much difference that makes in the real world to me? I don't have a clue. Will have to investigate that.
Not real sure on the "Handbook". I had talked with an old BLMer a few years ago, and said that the 1971 BLM Handbook outlined steps, procedures, equipment, formulas, etc. Now that I think about it, it would only seem logical for BLM to have an "official" name for it, even though the guys using it would call it something else.
Thanx,
geezer
The BLM & Sokkia are based on Apparent Noon (BLM) & Midnight (Sokkia). The time varies by 12 hours å± depending on the equation of time and other factors. Since the BLM quit publishing their ephemeris in 1988, it took some computations using the Sokkia Ephemeris and also using Jerry Wahl's Ephemeris to convert it to Apparent Noon to obtain the declination of the sun to use for the day for the solar transit. I have all this data documented so I can do this.
Perhaps the handbook you are referring to is the BLM Redbook (Standard Field Tables) that had lots of various tables, formulas, and other good items in it.
Charles L. Dowdell, post: 394200, member: 82 wrote: The BLM & Sokkia are based on Apparent Noon (BLM) & Midnight (Sokkia). The time varies by 12 hours å± depending on the equation of time and other factors. Since the BLM quit publishing their ephemeris in 1988, it took some computations using the Sokkia Ephemeris and also using Jerry Wahl's Ephemeris to convert it to Apparent Noon to obtain the declination of the sun to use for the day for the solar transit. I have all this data documented so I can do this.
Perhaps the handbook you are referring to is the BLM Redbook (Standard Field Tables) that had lots of various tables, formulas, and other good items in it.
yEAH, I DON'T KNOW.
THAT IS THE PROBOLEM. I JUST DON'T KNOW!!!
In fact, it blows me away how much I don't know about something that we took for granted back in '64 when I started. I was just "a part of the process", and just didn't get the whole picture.
Geezer
2016 Sun and Polaris Ephemerii
for Land Surveyors (c) 2000-2016 jerry l. wahl
http://www.cadastral.com/2016ephs.htm
Jerry Anderson, post: 394212, member: 11843 wrote: yEAH, I DON'T KNOW.
THAT IS THE PROBOLEM. I JUST DON'T KNOW!!!
In fact, it blows me away how much I don't know about something that we took for granted back in '64 when I started. I was just "a part of the process", and just didn't get the whole picture.Geezer
A good book for you to get if it is still available or you can find one is: "ASTRONOMIC and GRID AZIMUTH" by Ben Buckner. A lot of information and examples in it.
Does anyone have any user info on the app Sun Surveyor or any other that will work?
I would pay $7.99 if it would replace the outdated program I have.
I keep some XP Pro computers because I still have DOS programs that serve me well.
The programs can be installed simply by copying and pasting the program in a file to the C drive.
Open the DOS prompt and a few commands later the program is operational.
The ephemeris of the sunshot program on SMI for HP48 is probably past its end date.
It took me several years to find out that GPS time and Greenwich time was 42å± seconds different.
Good thing that it did not make a large difference on small tracts of land.
I was matching what other local surveyors were stating, so I was not the only one that missed that memo.
Hey Geezer, You should call me. I have some stuff that may help. It would be fun to pull it out and work with it again.
Since I am up in Oregon, it should be easy to work on it. 503-719-4517
Luke CO PLS, post: 394278, member: 1220 wrote: Hey Geezer, You should call me. I have some stuff that may help. It would be fun to pull it out and work with it again.
Since I am up in Oregon, it should be easy to work on it. 503-719-4517
Thanx,
I will call you Monday morning, if not sooner. I have a couple of things I have to get done "before I can go out to play!" LOL
Geezer
I recently acquired a Gurley solar transit. I am familiar with its operation, but the current solar empheris is different than the older BLM, which was at GHA at noon. Is there an easy way to convert back to use the instrument.
Thanks,
Doug