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Those are funny but unfortunately sometimes true.?ÿ About 40 years ago I was working as a "field engineer" (read surveyor) on a large construction site.?ÿ I was called into the office one day to meet with the project manager, the steel erection subcontractor and my boss.?ÿ I was chewed from one end to the other because the steel wasn't fitting on the second floor of a building.?ÿ I spent an entire day checking and double checking EVERY dimension that I had as per the drawings that I used to stake the building.?ÿ I could find no appreciable errors at all.?ÿ The steel foreman was there and watched as I checked them all.?ÿ He just scratched his head and pulled out his shop drawings for the steel erection.?ÿ OOOOPS.?ÿ He had been hung the north end of the girders on the south end of the building, and the east-west beams wouldn't fit.?ÿ The ONLY apology I got was from my boss, I believe he had been in a similar situation before.
Not only did they have to disassemble the steel they were using A490 (extremely high strength) bolts.?ÿ Once they are tightened they cannot be reused, so all the bolts had to be reordered causing even more delays.?ÿ After the foreman got over being mad at me for catching his mistake we did become, if not friends, at least cordial.?ÿ He even bought me a beer.
Andy
What I've noticed is if some random person sees me with a rod or data collector they automatically assume I know: everyone who is working on the project and where they are located right this second, everything that is going to be built and when, where all the pipes are buried, if I am going to cut down their tree (best), and if I can stop making so much dust/mud/noise/whatever.
Whoever is most visible gets asked the questions.?ÿ
I once ran a level line between two NGS bench marks to see if I believed one was really in the original place and undisturbed (it checked nicely then but is gone now, darn it).?ÿ Sunday afternoon, no reflective vest, going down the sidewalks with my wife holding the rod, in a town I only pass through occasionally.?ÿ Somebody stopped and asked when I was going to repave their street.
My first day the party chief explained to me that since all I was qualified to do at that point was to hold the rod and pound in the hubs, that I would be out front at the construction site. I was to say nothing, preferably just point to him behind the gun. He wasn't being mean, at least I didn't take it that way, but he didn't want me making stuff up (and he didn't know me at all).
And it always struck fear in my heart when I saw one of my new seconds talking to someone. If they were old hats, and if I trusted them, then it was different.
The reality of dealing with middlemen can be a horror story.
Sounds familiar. I am still involved in a lawsuit involving a Condo PUD. Several of the 8 unit buildings floor slabs have cracked substantially leaving 1-3" wide cracks. I neither know nor care what the problem is/was. All I know is that because I did a "foundation" survey I am now responsible for all the cracks in the foundations as well as the accumulating punitive damages. This happened once before with another PUD. It took a formal complaint with the Florida Bar to force the Attorney in charge to realize I didn't design or pour the foundation/slabs. ?????ÿ
@flga
I was named once in a law suit that involved several houses that were built on fill that had settled severely. All I had done was set grade stakes for the dirt work. We needed a school bus to get everyone named in the suit to the first deposition. The real estate broker that had sold the houses was even there. I did have to answer the question, "Why did my grade stakes specify so much fill?"
Basically the developer bought his inexperienced son-in-law some excavation equipment to save a few bucks. 90% of the folks named in the suit washed clean after the first round. The developer eventually bought 4 or 5 houses and then went belly-up. Those lots were razed and turned into a park I think.
"We needed a school bus to get everyone named in the suit to the first deposition."
Same thing here. Even the "mow and blow" dudes were named in the lawsuit. I was subpoenaed for a deposition but my attorney told them to go to hell in attorney speak.
@flga
Our attorney was also representing the civil on the project. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have been there either. Much ado about nothing that concerned me...for a change.
"We needed a school bus to get everyone named in the suit to the first deposition."
Same thing here. Even the "mow and blow" dudes were named in the lawsuit. I was subpoenaed for a deposition but my attorney told them to go to hell in attorney speak.?ÿ
?ÿ
The engineering firm for which I worked was named in a lawsuit when an impaired (drunk) driver ran off the road into a ditch which was being excavated for a gas line.?ÿ All we had done was locate the utilities along the side of the road and draw lines indicating where the right of way was and where the gas line should go but since our name was on the plans it MUST be our fault.?ÿ We didn't even provide the inspection on the site but, as with most attorneys, they used the "shotgun method" and sued ANYBODY who's name they could uncover.?ÿ
Andy
?ÿ
Civil liability is often assigned based on process rather than fault. If you assume a aensible process you will probably end up disappointed and broke...
?ÿYou can be the most cooperative member of the onsite team, alert the engineers there's a bust in their design, advise the mass grading contractor their cans appear to be working backwards and moving fill into the cut slopes, squeal on subs who submit plans (swimming pool subs in particular) that cannot be staked, etc.?ÿ You're a good guy and all the players respect your input.
But in the construction business surveyors are always included in a lawsuit if things go pear-shaped.?ÿ I've some lawyer friends in the construction litigation business (big money) who will always name the surveyor if only to gain discovery access to his/her records.?ÿ Usually the surveyor is not culpable but rarely the surveyor is the guy/gal who made the mistake, then they can hit your liability insurance for a big payoff.?ÿ No wonder liability insurance is so high.
I'm not a saint and have had a coupla' $40,000+- judgements against me over 40 years.?ÿ I still feel I was not at fault; lousy plans I tried my best to stake which were totally bogus.?ÿ But the court disagreed and distributed culpability amongst us so my share was 40 grand for a $100,000 mistake.
My boss at the time commiserated and told me it's just the cost of doing business.?ÿ
Our friend the late Larry Phipps, had a great seminar regarding liability- I??m glad I had the privilege to hear it in person, shortly before his cancer journey started. ?ÿThe one case that still stands out to me was called the hotdog vender. Iirc there was an industrial accident and a crane collapsed killing several workers. Everyone on site was named in the lawsuit, including a guy with a hotdog vending cart/coach on site. and the hotdog guy??s insurance ended up paying a small portion of the settlement. ?ÿJust a mass distribution of the settlement cost "because somebody??s got to pay for those kids?? needs"...( a quote from the seminar- I think that was from the Defense's main counsel after the settlement when Larry questioned the inclusion of Hot dog guy)?ÿ?ÿI miss Larry and his insight.
Slightly off topic, years ago I worked for a big engineering consultancy and found myself as the design-boy for the street stormwater around a multi-million dollar harbour-side multi-story apartment block. Having said that, the design was nominal stuff and could have been summarised in one sentence, but we had a handsome fee for it, so I was told to flesh it out. It was a design-build and we were the external designers for one of the big players.
Anyway, wrongly, I take a personal interest in what I do, far beyond what is required for work, and in this case among other things, when it came time for construction I started jogging again after work, and arranged the runs so that I could have a squiz at things just for the sake of seeing some construction of something I designed.
So, on one of the Contractor's frequent daily calls I mentioned that the night before I'd run past and seen that they'd started installing the pipes. He said something like: "Thanks, I didn't know we'd started". Anyway a couple of weeks later he called me up and said there's a major problem in that he had not passed the for-construction setout info to the pipe crew and now they'd almost completed and were near the upstream end, and that end would be about a meter above ground. He then went on to say: "That's ok for us, because you inspected and approved it." I said some like "WTF" and he said "You told me you inspected the work daily after hours and had been taking measurements to confirm it was correct". There was a bit more back and forth, and although I'm A-grade whimp, I could only conclude by telling him directly: "You're a f.....g liar". I told the department boss what had happened and he mumbled something like I shouldn't have gone near the site. I don't know what happened to sort it out, as a couple of days later I was shifted to another project, then made redundant two weeks later.
It really stung me that someone who I'd been all loved-up with, would then come out with such a lie. However a few years later I attended a one-day law seminar for engineers and the honcho pointed out that the fundamental basis of our court system (I think was referring to English based systems, i.e. Aussie, NZ, Canada?, USA?) is that those who are guilty are going to 100% lie, and that is taken as 100% acceptable. So, that put things into perspective for me, re the stormwater.
the fundamental basis of our court system (I think was referring to English based systems, i.e. Aussie, NZ, Canada?, USA?) is that those who are guilty are going to 100% lie, and that is taken as 100% acceptable. So, that put things into perspective for me, re the stormwater
I was in court recently, and saw a surveyor follow some of this line of behavior! He also lost his case!
Nate
Yes, I think went on to say something like the court's reason for being is that it works out who is lying and who isn't, or who is lying the least.
A qualified expert witness, looses points with the judge, when he comits perjury. (My spell check tried to say vomits perjury!)
Not a great way to go on record. And, it looks bad on the whole profession.
N