Went to see the in-laws on Whidbey Island this past weekend, and ended up visiting their good friends who live up the island about half an hour. I'd met these friends before but never been over to their place.
These friends have a really nice piece of property with a view, and in the course of walking around admiring their house, gardens, etc., they happened to mention that they have had problems with their neighbor to the south ever since they moved in.
The neighbor apparently "took over" a portion of an "abandoned" 60' wide utility easement (about 150 feet of it) that was "supposed to be" part of the friends' property.
There are still active electrical poles and lines there, so obviously the easement has not been abandoned, but that's more or less irrelevant. I don't really have a dog in this fight, so I just idly asked if they had ever had a survey done and if so what the results were.
No survey done, not when they purchased the property and not when they got into the dispute. I should mention that this is a roughly $1.5M property, that probably would sell for 2M in the current market.
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Well, curiosity got the better of me this morning, and I spent about half an hour digging into the public records. As far as I can tell, that troublesome neighbor has always owned the disputed portion. All recorded deeds going back to when the properties were originally split up pretty much confirm it. There may be something I am missing that a full title investigation and survey would reveal, but there's even an old BLA for the friends' tract that clearly shows (and describes) their parcel lying outside of the easement area.
There's actually a decent amount of monumentation in the area and all the recorded surveys are consistent with one another - not necessarily the norm for this part of the island.
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Now get ready for the fun part - in the course of discussing this legal battle, the friends casually mentioned that they had spent over $20K in legal fees fighting for "their" piece of land, and are still trying to fight it. Supposedly the neighbor was not real friendly from the start, but now there's a full-blown vendetta between them.
They say the "next step" is to get a real survey done this spring. Sounds like they have engaged one of the local island firms with a good reputation. I'm 95% sure they're going to end up disappointed. (I did tell them to make sure the surveyor is aware of the bad blood between them and the neighbor.)?ÿ
I don't know how they managed to get taken for so much money without getting a survey done - all the real estate attorneys on the island know how wonky the parcels can be, and will tell you to get a survey first thing, before even coming in for a consultation.
My guess is that the survey will run them $5K or so, and will likely be the only thing of value that they get out of this whole episode.
Wow...just wow!
T. Nelson - SAM
thanks for sharing. man what a sucky neighbor, that wears on the quality of life for sure.
Occupying and defending your land is not being sucky. ?ÿ
@fairbanksls I'm thinking the friend is the sucky neighbor...lol
over $20K in legal fees fighting for "their" piece of land, and are still trying to fight it
how is it not malpractice to not have a surveyor at that point...and unless the lawyer is practicing outside their expertise, they should have seen the same documents (and been able to interpret them).
An attorney will advocate for his/her client as long as the money holds out. They are not interested in resolving the dispute while there are fees to be collected. The attorney who behaves otherwise is a rarity. The examples of this are innumerable.?ÿ ?ÿ
It's just been my experience that there appears to be an inverse relationship between people with lots of money and good sense, not to mention charitable nature.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
what a sucky neighbor
Which one?
Hopefully you'll tell them what you've discovered, possibly saving them the additional $5K + legal, some face and, if they're even moderately mature, maybe a possible mending of relationship with the neighbor.?ÿ I wonder what caused them to believe they were servient re that easement; a comment from the seller/REA?
The plot thickens....apparently at one point in the past year they did try to hire a surveyor, but it seems that they went with one of the bargain-basement variety. The firm did a bit of field work and then just stopped returning calls, after taking initial payment. Could be part of the reason they held off on contracting for another survey.
Still, they're not dumb people. They know that you get what you pay for and you don't go for the lowest bidder on professional services. Especially with high-dollar property at stake.
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It's just been my experience that there appears to be an inverse relationship between people with lots of money and good sense, not to mention charitable nature.
I would agree. These folks have been fantastic human beings in all my interactions with them, but when it comes to land all bets are off. It's far more common for rich folks to penny-pinch on the important stuff, and I say that having some rich folks in my extended family.
Occupying and defending your land is not being sucky.
Exactly. The neighbor is universally disliked in the area, but they are still entitled to the land that is theirs. This was a screwup all the way around.
Hopefully you'll tell them what you've discovered, possibly saving them the additional $5K + legal, some face and, if they're even moderately mature, maybe a possible mending of relationship with the neighbor.?ÿ I wonder what caused them to believe they were servient re that easement; a comment from the seller/REA?
I could be looking at this the wrong way, and maybe it's a bit heartless but....they need a damn survey. The only way this gets sorted out is for a professional to do it right and show them the lines on the ground. That 5K will be money well spent compared to the money pit they've been throwing cash into.
I also don't want to start throwing my very preliminary analysis around as if it's somehow definitive. When someone hears a licensed surveyor say, "Well, it's possible that XXXXXX is happening with this property" it could possibly turn into "Plaintiff cites an opinion stated by Rover83, PLS number #####. The court now calls the surveyor who should have kept his mouth shut." Especially since litigation is already a foregone conclusion for this case.
I'm thinking the friend is the sucky neighbor...lol
Our society does not teach people how to own land. Strange things in our history as a nation caused a de-emphasis of that. Everyone is supposed to move to a different state every 5 years for their corporate "good job" and career, and that throws out the whole idea of having any unwritten rights accrue to occupation. Let the real estate agent tell you where the boundaries are and if there is a disagreement, call an attorney.
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since litigation is already a foregone conclusion for this case.
This is its own special branch of surveying. I recently took my first such case, having absolutely refused since getting licensed any survey where there were attorneys already involved. But Mom's 5th cousin the attorney from church really needed it, so there I was taking the survey. The confidentiality thing was difficult, because normally I would go knock on the adjoiner's door or try to call them, and apparently that's not what we do once attorneys are involved. The stress and worry are such that I'm gonna double my rates again.
@half-bubble First thing an Attorney is going to ask you is "Do you have any relationship to the Plaintiff, Defendant" Have them hire somebody else.
@skeeter1996 I do understand what you and @rover83 are saying about that particular, but alas, I'm afraid that as I start getting more into this I may have to learn that one the hard way.?ÿ It seems too hard for me not to help someone out when I can... but I get it (and may get it worse later).
@skeeter1996 Read again, I am very distantly kin to the attorney but not their client.
@skeeter1996 I do understand what you and @rover83 are saying about that particular, but alas, I'm afraid that as I start getting more into this I may have to learn that one the hard way.?ÿ It seems too hard for me not to help someone out when I can... but I get it (and may get it worse later).
There's nothing wrong with wanting to do the right thing and help folks out - don't change based on my account. It's a good quality and goes a long ways toward promoting surveyors as problem-solvers rather than problem-makers. Just be careful and consider the possible ramifications.
I still go out of my way to help out folks who ask for my advice. A lot of times that involves steering them toward competitors because I don't want a conflict of interest, but that works out OK because I always tell folks that they will get what they pay for, don't quibble on price, and to be up front about any issues with the property. The competitor quotes them a fair price and gets some work, and the landowner gets a quality survey and comes away feeling that they got their money's worth, along with a positive story about surveyors.
In this case everyone involved has enough money that paying for a survey isn't a hardship.
From a business/professional standpoint, I have a hard time feeling sorry for folks who have the money to shell out for multi-million dollar properties but think that a survey is too expensive. If someone can pay a real estate agent 30K for granting access to the MLS (which exists solely for the purpose of blocking access to others), and filling out some paperwork, someone can pay a few grand for professional services that require far more skill/experience and delivers a product which lasts beyond the closing date.
From a business/professional standpoint, I have a hard time feeling sorry for folks who have the money to shell out for multi-million dollar properties but think that a survey is too expensive. If someone can pay a real estate agent 30K for granting access to the MLS (which exists solely for the purpose of blocking access to others), and filling out some paperwork, someone can pay a few grand for professional services that require far more skill/experience and delivers a product which lasts beyond the closing date.
Quote of the year, please run for office.
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