Would it be possible to ask your neighbors? That might be one way to go about it? If you are next to a road, the town could show you a plan showing distance to centerline.
If you want the real deal, will need to hire a professional. Those ideas above may bring you close enough, good luck.
"last resort solution"
> As several have previously mentioned topographic maps lack the accuracy you need.
Yes, I am giving up on this method.
> Also remember any time you attempt to survey your own property line you are also >surveying the line common to your neighbor(s). Surveying is more than measuring it >is also understanding the property laws and legal history of your area. In most >parts of the world surveying property requires a professional license. That also >means attempting to survey without a proper license is usually a violation of the >local laws. Setting a corner in error and/or violating the law may create more >problems than you already have. Attorneys fees, court costs, fines and damages paid >to neighbors can quickly exceed the the cost of a survey. Additionally a survey will >likely be required to gather evidence for the court to examine.
I am aware of all this but as I explained before due to the absence of solid markers between the fields it is inevitable that the boundaries will drift in time.
And I am already doing a sort of "surveying". Every year before planting in spring and ploughing in autumn I measure the width of my fields. This can easily be done because majority of fields in this area (and all of mine) have fixed lenght and the value of the area can be found in ownership papers or from the online cadastar database. So the width is easily acquired by dividing those two. The problem with this method is that I don't have a fixed starting point from which to begin measuring.
So I thought to improve this by doing the proper surveying.
> The best advice I can give you is consult with a local professional surveyor for >an estimate of the cost to survey and monument your property. This could also >include setting points in the roads between the fields to recover the actual >corners. Also ask what your local laws allow you to do yourself. Then try to get >your neighbors to share in the cost. It may save all of you time and expense in >the end.
I am aware of this and I know the costs. It just won't do for me to hire a surveyor twice per year for dozen of fields scattered on a large area.
And no permanent marker can be placed. Nobody can guarantee that a reckless tractor driver won't drive over it a few days after it has been placed.
Ask my neighbours what? They are as clueless about the corners as I am 🙂
All the fields are next to a road. And that's the next thing I will do: Ask the town or Cadastar service maybe for a plan of the area. Hopefully the network of buried monuments will be on the plan too.
English
Thank you 🙂
I don't think you'll get 3" precision. Do a resection with more than three points to get a better feel for what you are dealing with. Don't worry about anyone slamming your spelling. No one knows your background.
How about this hair brained scheme: Hire a licensed surveyor to mark your property corners. Have him mark each corner by setting an iron pipe buried a few feet down (so as not to be disturbed) and set another "disposable" mark on the surface above. Then use a survey grade RTK GNSS receiver to record the coordinates of each of the surface marks he has set. After the surface marks have inevitably been destroyed by farm equipment and the like, you can go back out and use the GNSS receiver along with a metal detector to locate the undisturbed underground marks and reset the surface marks. You can repeat this "locate and reset" procedure as often as needed. That way you'll only have to pay for one survey one time plus the cost of the survey grade GNSS receiver and the metal detector.
Disclaimer: I'm not a surveyor and this is not surveying advice.
I'd have the surveyor find the stones, set iron rods over them but at a depth that would not be disturbed by plowing. Then I'd have him set reference marks by extending the lines to the edge of the road where the land would not be plowed and the marks could be at the surface. That would allow easy retracement, until such time as the road was reworked.
"last resort solution"
How "permanent" are the roads themselves?
Are they likely to get plowed?
It's hard to tell from aerial photos.
Can "reference" points, offset to actual Property Corners be placed in the middle of the roads after having the local Surveyor come out
one last time, rather than at the corner themselves.
They can be set below the road surface with adequate protection above
(rocks, couple of sacks of concrete,etc).
Example, the road is 10m wide. Go perpendicular (90 degrees to backsight on other road point) for a distance of 5m.
There is an inexpensive (US$20-40) 90 prism device for this but you said you have a theodolite.
Also, have similar Road Points at the far ends of the road to allow you to tape down the center of the road to find YOUR road points.
I'll bet your neighbors would like to contribute to a simple system like that.
(Tried to draw a "Text Picture" but all spaces are removed by the editor.)
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PS I think this is how the whole surveying business got started with the Egyptians having to relocate property corners after the Spring Floods of the Nile.
So it's an old problem.
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PPS Do you ever find World War Two 1939-45 munitions in the fields??
Lerua,
I read all this quickly and I didn't catch the parts that you were in Serbia. Sorry for the cynical remark. But the questions still remain, and it seems you may have your hands full wanting 3" accuracy and being along a property line.
I worked with some CAD guys working in the UK. Quite amazing the coordinate basis there. All the surveyors there are government workers. I was under the impression that most of Europe is similar, so I'd start with your local authority.
But with all due respect, it seems you do need to retain a professional. Sometimes shortcuts will do exactly that - cut you short.
Late news
Wow, who saw this coming:
I delivered the survey drawings and the invoice. It wasn't much, but I could tell he was in shock. All he wanted was the two front corners. He didn't need the monuments one and two blocks away that I showed on the record of survey drawing, and he didn't need the monuments across the street.
Well, no, he didn't, but I did. That's how I was able to find the original lead cap and prove the two monuments that he did want.
Yes, that's much better and way less expensive than my silly idea. A pair of nearby offset reference marks for each corner would allow each corner to easily be re-established with nothing more than a few minutes with a tape measure.
What, and miss all the fun of 3(or more)-points resection? 🙂
Am skeptic about metal detectors. From time to time, things like old horseshoes, metal chains and similar emerge at the surface. Not so good environment for a metal detector.
A quality GNSS receiver would be too expensive for what I need here and I would still be dependent of a surveyor.
I was thinking the same. Road are dirt roads which don't get ploughed which makes them perfect for burying a stone on the extended boundary line.
With the only exception I want to do it myself. A professional surveyor will be called only in case of a dispute.
I have the width of the field which will provide me a good redundancy after I set two corners.
Ok, maybe I don't need 3" but 5" would be the top.
I think they were government workers only here too up until some twenty years ago.
This is exactly what I am trying to do here. Avoid the trouble and solve the problem involving as less people and resources as possible. Don't worry, I won't do anything illegal :). I don't see how can I even.
And I got really excited about doing all this.
Doesn't surveying allow amateurism within its ranks?
Lerua
An aging post but the mathematical solution you want can be found here starting on page 15 Three Point Resection🙂
The mathematical accuracy might be within your tolerance depending on the accuracy of your control. Can you scale objects off your maps to better than 1.5 inches to get your 3 inch result? Can you scale your boundaries to the same accuracy? Are the topographical features and your boundaries related?
Try your resection using different topographical features to see how comfortable you are with the result.
I, for one, doubt you will get the same values. :-S
Treat it as a matter of interest only and it will show why boundary definition is not a trivial matter.
Get your neighbour in on the act. Don't get into a legal fight with them. You will very likely lose. :-@
Bill93's solution seems much more practical in the long term. B-)
Majorphill
There is a far way better solution for you.
Go on http://www.geosrbija.rs , and you could find your parcel and get something like this:
Black lines are boundaries.
> There is a far way better solution for you.
> Black lines are boundaries.
If this GIS is anything like the GIS we have in America - and I have no reason to suppose it is not - the black lines are only roughly representative of the boundaries. Often they are wildly in error. If you really need to know were your property lines are you need a surveyor.
Off course he hawe to pay surveyor, but this is wery accurate for what he needs.
Before we go on terrain, usualy we print this image to see what is waiting us on field.
In town acc. is about 0.3-0.5m.
Resolution of image is 10cm in towns, and 40cm in willages, and all of them are in state coord.sys.