I'm sure that this has been discussed before - but....
I've been asked for a mylar of a plan that I finished and delivered almost 2 years ago.
The client apparently lost the original. Now they're asking for another one to record.
I'm not all that comfortable with the idea. Normally, I hold tight to the idea that I date it the actual day that I stamp/sign. If I do that in this case, then I'm uncomfortable, as that was 2 years ago, and I don't know what's been going on with the site since then. I don't want to give the impression that the plan is current to today.
I also struggle with signing and dating it the original date, and wonder about the ethics of back-dating something that I'm signing today.
I do have paper copies of the original, but they're looking for a mylar in this case.
> I'm sure that this has been discussed before - but....
>
> I've been asked for a mylar of a plan that I finished and delivered almost 2 years ago.
>
> The client apparently lost the original. Now they're asking for another one to record.
>
> I'm not all that comfortable with the idea. Normally, I hold tight to the idea that I date it the actual day that I stamp/sign. If I do that in this case, then I'm uncomfortable, as that was 2 years ago, and I don't know what's been going on with the site since then. I don't want to give the impression that the plan is current to today.
>
> I also struggle with signing and dating it the original date, and wonder about the ethics of back-dating something that I'm signing today.
>
> I do have paper copies of the original, but they're looking for a mylar in this case.
A reprographics company should be able to copy the original copy to mylar. Might not look as good as the original delivered but a good lesson for the client to take better care of the originals. Just curious, why don't you have an original mylar in your records?
> I'm not all that comfortable with the idea.
That seems like enough to go on. Anytime you are uncomfortable about something, that is usually a good sign that there is reason to be uncomfortable.
I would never update a survey without an actual inspection. I have no problem signing a fresh copy of an old plat but I will not change a single thing on it and make no representation that it is anything more than what it was when first issued.
I don't consider what you are being asked to do as "back dating". All you are doing is providing another copy.
That's my $0.02 worth.
:good: :good:
No, this isn't an update. This is basically just creating an exact copy of the original that was done 2 years ago - no changes, exactly the same.
I agree with Dave Ingram. Sign and seal it with the original date.
If you feel uncomfortable with this, add a statement that this is an exact, true or other wording implying such, copy of the original dated 27 August 1942, sign and date that note. If you need to place an updated stamp on the drawing because the cad file lacking signatures or no stamp, use your current stamp, usually an updated renew date, use it with a note also signed and dated clearly stating just what you are intending to imply with the stamp.
Best of all is copy a copy of the original on mylar and only provide that to your client with nothing added.
jud
You completed your project 2 years ago when you delivered the client his mylar and copies. You now have a new project, charge whatever it takes to make you comfortable to sign it today.
Maybe I just found an extra mylar, in the back room, signed/stamped/dated - but somehow, still warm.
> You completed your project 2 years ago when you delivered the client his mylar and copies. You now have a new project, charge whatever it takes to make you comfortable to sign it today.
I agree. I know a surveyor who was held liable because he provided a copy of an old lot survey he had done several years before for a new sale of the lot. There had been several changes on the site he was unaware of. The plaintiff's attorney was known as one of the best in Alabama in cases involving property transactions and knew the surveyor very well. He told him that the surveyors' obligation for providing plat copies ends when the plat is received by the client.
I wouldn't provide another drawing without visiting the site, recovering the corners, checking for changes, and charging accordingly.
There's no way I'd give him a copy without verifying the information. I agree that my part of a project ends when I give you final copies and doesn't include the client not recording the plans and losing them.
I've told many people over the years that I'm not the (Town name) Library and I'm not willing to just hand out copies of things I've done for nothing.
Surveyors are always trying to find ways to either get sued or not make money. Does the attorney do anything for free? does a title company? how about a realtor? heck it cost you $100 to read this thread. Tell the client it is company policy to require a site visit and update on anything more than 2 months old, tell him your liability insurer requires it. Do whatever you like but if you are going to do it for free, go play golf or go bowling.
I agree
There's no way I'd certify, today, something I did 2 years ago, and make even worse by fraudulently stating that I signed this 2 years ago.
That would be an outright lie and possibly a prosecutable fraud.
If your uncertain, call your BOR and ask them if there's anything wrong with backdating a survey from 2 years ago.
I think they might tell you that you can sign it with today's date, but that you should state the product only reflects the condition of 2 years ago and IS NOT CURRENT.
Yup. Dug through some old files and by golly there it was. Just as fresh as the day I made it.....two years ago. Sure, you can have it. That'll be $XXX to cover my time locating it for you. If you don't want it, I'll just toss it back on that pile of stuff I never got around to filing properly.
It's not a big deal. Go find something worth worrying about.
How Can You File A 2 Year Old Plan ?
I have seen plenty filed more than 2 years after the original date but they have multiple updated revisions.
In my opinion the project is dead cold and requires an updated survey. Not that you have to charge full price. Around here no planning board or other official would sign it without new fees and maybe even a full reapplication. It is not just the site that changes, there may be adjacent lot changes and planning or zoning requirement changes.
Paul in PA
How Can You File A 2 Year Old Plan ?
Also if Planning or Zoning are involved they might object with having a two year old map recorded anyway, and want to know why you did not record at that time, especially if any sort of issue emerges after the fact.
You could add a note something like this:
This map is issued as a replacement of the original, dated 04/01/2011. This map is reflective of conditions as they existed on 04/01/2011. No additional record research or field surveying has been performed for this reissued map and no express or implied representations are made that the state of the records or of onsite conditions are accurately depicted hereon as they may have changed since 04/01/2011 . No representations are made, express or implied, that this drawing represents an updated survey. The express representation is made that this drawing is NOT reflective of an updated survey.
Charge accordingly for your time and effort for both producing the replacement, and for considering how to do so appropriately given the time elapsed between the survey and this request. Be sure that your fee is high enough that it reflects the value of the drawing for your client's needs, and is high enough to encourage your client to take better care of this one.
If your client squawks about the fee, then maybe he doesn't really need it that badly.
I do not sign and seal originals to make copies of.
We make additional prints to paper or other required media and sign and seal them.
I do not have a problem with issuing any older drawing with no changes to a previous client.
It bothers me when an other person or third party contacts me to do so, usually I do not issue unless it is a clerk asking for a better copy than they have.
What bothers me more is when they ask for something to be added to the drawing to show more detail or information.
To that I always respond that a new survey has to be made to make any changes because my liability starts over and that is a billable resource.
0.02