Great thread. My observations.
The nearest stop sign or traffic light outside of projects has always been littered with pennies, nickels and dimes. ($1.40 is my max to date). Those who disrespect small change are destined to poorness.
Drug dealer and/or users don??t fear Surveyors. I have asked crack smokers to bump the car up a little so I could occupy a traverse point. They complied with little difference. I??ve had one buyer wait on me because he thought I was next in line. Watching the blinds and/or drapes indicates to what level of concern they have. I have heard ??they??re just surveyors? before coming upon plants. I think most drug dealers have worked on a field crew for two weeks, hence drug dealing in better.
The few women surveyors I??ve worked for/under have been quick to use your good advice and slow to rub bad advice in your face. How many engineers can you say that about? I have called authoritative women ??sir?? without a bat of the eye; responsible young women ??ma??am??, old ladies ??miss?? and mixed work group ??you guys?? without noticing a problem. If you tip well at a diner, everyone calls you ??honey and sweetie?? from then on. If I were woke, I would realize that women have always hated me for thinking these were ok, but as of now, I am not yet awaken. I know this is changing, or has already changed and I am the slow one. I just think, where I live, women are in charge, but don??t want it to be so obvious, in order to keep being in charge.
I know this is all wrong today, but the ??man?? in chainman, postman or Workman??s Comp, refers to all. Women are men too. Actually, more than a man. The line between respect and offense has been blurred to the point of nonexistence. Again I sincerely apologize if I offend anyone, I want to express a view that I believe pertinent to the post, but don??t want to get kicked off either.
I had just had my eighteenth birthday when I discovered I was among a group of people who were actively being discriminated against.?ÿ On our campus was the Department of Aids and Awards.?ÿ They were the people who were the direct link between students and all sorts of scholarship applications, work study applications, Pell grant applications, etc.?ÿ They advised me that I was not eligible for much of anything.?ÿ The reason??ÿ They could not check certain "boxes" that would advance my chances.
Later I took a Civil Service exam and scored almost a perfect score, yet I did not get to interview for the specific job that was open for the Summer, because certain others had been able to check certain "boxes" that added to their test scores resulting in perfect scores for them.
Reality sucks when you are dirt poor but don't even qualify for food stamps.
If you choose to take offense where none was intended that is your fault.
Too true.
While teaching at a regional university, an email comes through to all faculty/staff seeking input about consideration of changing the designations freshman/sophomore/junior/senior.?ÿ Apparently some folks were getting concerned that use of these terms to differentiate student's course attainment level was causing harm to their psyche.?ÿ Because of the school mascot, a suggestion was made to instead use terms such as (I do not recall the actual ones) foal, yearling, nag etc...
I pointed out my opinion that this was silliness as changing the names did not end the situation of distinguishing the different attainment levels between students and that they still needed the prerequisite courses before moving up to being the next step in the process.?ÿ I also pointed out that it could cause confusion when transferring into or out of a non-horse based class attainment school.?ÿ Further, when I got angry and said fudge in an angry and aggressive tone, my thought/intent was the same as another f-word.?ÿ Student classification was simply what courses have you successfully completed and to consider it some form of oppression solved by choosing different names for things seems a stretch.
At the time, what I did not think to point out was there was actual difference in treatment based on classification of faculty rank.?ÿ So if they wanted to end an actual practice that had intent to treat people poorly, they should stop treating adjunct faculty so poorly and tenured faculty should have the same expected duties as non-tenured faculty.?ÿ I would wager those who came up with the original scheme wouldn't have been as accepting if that meant their title/rank/position/power would be lessened.
@holy-cow?ÿ That's a shame, I took the same test and my High School counselor was able to hook me up with a summer job with the Corps of Engineers. That led to Co-op and summer jobs with the Navy that helped pay for college. There is a good academic social justice rant that could make here. Martin Luther King, Jr. would agree; but not on his day or here.
With respect to the Civil Service potential Summer job, it was a case of the multitude of members of the Armed Services who were returning to civilian life in 1972.?ÿ Many of them were my friends.?ÿ There was no doubt they had earned what they got.?ÿ But, when you have a door slammed in your face, it sort of hangs with you no matter the reason.
At Aids and Awards, there was a lengthy list of boxes that one might be able to check.?ÿ Being able to check any one of them, moved that person ahead of me.?ÿ Being able to check three or more almost guaranteed great rewards.
FYI. You should find it interesting that the term "Civil" engineering came about as the alternative for Military Engineering.?ÿ Anything that was not directly aimed at supporting the military was deemed to be civil.?ÿ Thus, the name.?ÿ So, virtually every other name associated with engineering from agricultural to?ÿ nuclear grew from that early label of Civil Engineering.?ÿ ASCE was formed in the 1850's.?ÿ ASME and the earliest form of IEEE date to the 1880's.?ÿ Other such organizations did not form until the 1900's, some as late as the 1960's.
We've probably all heard that the difference between mechanical engineers and civil engineers is that ME's make weapons while CE's make targets.?ÿ Makes me wonder if ME was originally Military Engineer.
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@dave-o?ÿ
In July 1977 I was in New York City attending a national meeting of CESSE (Council of Engineering and Scientific Society Executives) ( https://www.cesse.org/) as my boss was President of that organization that year.?ÿ One of the fellows I met while there was working for SAME (Society of American Military Engineers) ( https://www.same.org/).?ÿ He is my source for the message I provided earlier in this thread.?ÿ I was present to give a 20 minute presentation on some things we were doing that were somewhat unique at the American Society of Agricultural Engineers, now the American Society of Agricultural and Biological Engineers) ( https://www.asabe.org/) where I was employed.?ÿ During my Senior year at KSU, I served as the President of the National Council of Student Branches of ASAE, now the International Student Branch Officer Team.
It is absolutely amazing the various contacts one makes over a lifetime.
Back in the mid 80's, (if i remember correctly), I read an article about some public works in California was doing away with the term "manhole".?ÿ The new term to use was "personnel access cover".
Or, in Star Trek, The Next Generation, underlings addressed the female "officers" as sir.
There's always going to be tension between current/historical use of language, and new ways to convey newer ideas.
What we call "historical" or "fundamental" today is often what previous generations considered the "woke words" of their day. Words get appropriated, some get modified, others get dropped, sometimes new ones are created.
Before my career was geomatics, it was history. No legitimate historian is going to argue that we should look at every single period in history in the same way, or judge one time period by another's standards.
By the same token, moving forward as a society is generally a good thing. If we're not arguing about how to convey new ideas, we're not moving forward.
Some of the transitions and changes are weird and uncomfortable at first (count me in on that feeling), but if language were meant to be immutable, we'd all still be speaking Sanskrit.
Yeah, language changes.?ÿ A younger guy I interact with calls everything he thinks is good"insane" and a good performance "destroyed" it. I inwardly groan.
Bill Bryson, the author of A Walk In The Woods wrote a book called The Mother Tongue - English and How It Got That Way.?ÿ It is not something to pick up and read in one sitting but lots of great stuff about the evolution of language and he is an inherently funny guy that makes an incredibly boring subject entertaining.
I don't know of any surveyor that doesn't call an angle and distance measure thingy a gun even to clients.?ÿ You shoot distances.?ÿ I do know many firearms enthusiasts who rarely just call a firearm a gun, they are generally more specific.
Do we want to delve into the proper terminology for the bovine world while we are hammering out the details of the English language.?ÿ Cow is not a catch all phrase as is commonly used by those not in the cattle business but is fact a female that has had a calf(experts interject any caveats here).?ÿ As a matter of fact, our favorite Divine Bovine frequent contributor may in fact be misrepresenting HIMself with his forum moniker, unless of course after watching many episodes of the Simpsons and listening to Bart he did have a cow.
Yippers.?ÿ Bad is good.?ÿ I lost track of the difference between being hot and being cool.
Hell, 50 years ago there were a thousand jokes built off of the term "groovy".?ÿ One of the worst was, "What's groovy?" with the answer being "A corduroy rubber."
There were another thousand jokes built off of the term "gross".?ÿ One of the worst was, "What's gross?" with the answer being, "When your Grandma kisses you goodnight and slips you a little tongue."
many firearms enthusiasts who rarely just call a firearm a gun
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Yeah, language changes.?ÿ A younger guy I interact with calls everything he thinks is good"insane" and a good performance "destroyed" it. I inwardly groan.
You crushed it!?ÿ
Why do I wince when I hear that, sounds painful.
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Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
Kial e? parolas la anglan kiam ekzistas Esperanto?
@bill93?ÿ
Yes, and if you're into sports, it's not uncommon for someone to refer to a pitcher as having, filthy stuff.?ÿ ????ÿ That's supposed to be good pitching, I'm guessing.
Crosses the line even more when I read that a hockey player's shoot-out move was, disgusting
I mean, just what the hell is going on here?
I'm with Dave K, I usually use "instrument" because it helps to generate the respect it deserves.?ÿ ?ÿCalling it a "gun" always sounded silly to me, and in today's world, possibly dangerous.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ
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But also, don't assume that the terms you have heard your whole career are somehow universal.?ÿ ?ÿ
Complaining about people's outlook by using phrases like "woke" and "virtue signaling" says more about the person using them as a pejorative.... IMHO.?ÿ ?ÿ
A surveyor's steel tape will always be called a "chain", archaic or not.
The instrument will always be called a "gun" (not a very good term to use around airports though).?ÿ And the instrument operator will always be called the "I-man" or the "gunner".
The city I used to work for called these positions "Field Engineering Aide" and "Land Surveyor Assistant".?ÿ Awkward at best, but that was their civil service title.
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in the words of "the dude"...?ÿ Yeah, well, that's just like your opinion, man.?ÿ ?ÿ
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