Ok, I've lurked here for a while, but I finally got riled up enough to make a post. Let me give you a little of my background.
I'm in the south in a small town. I work for a firm with about 35 employees. We have a branch office in a large city 3 hours away. The branch office has never done much surveying because we've never had competant personnel there. There is a competent, licensed surveyor that reports to that office on a regular basis, but he doesn't do much actual surveying. I am at the main office and I am the director of the surveying department. I manage a few crews and a couple of office personnel. I am in charge of all surveying that isn't related to construction, such as layout and CEI. We have several federal contracts. I am licensed in several states. I have a BS in Surveying.
Now here's the rub. I have suspected for some time that I an underpaid. I realize that I am in not in charge and whatever I make is what I have agreed to. I understand that whatever situation I am in is ultimately my fault. Recently I received an email that accidently had too much information in it. It was forwarded to me and others welcoming a new unlicensed hire into the company at the branch office in the large city. This individual will in all likelihood be working at least in part, under me. He will be making $52,000, which is more than I make.
To me, that is a not-too-subliminal message that I need to pack my bags and move on. While I can understand a multiplier for working in a big city, where I live isn't exactly stuck in a 50's time warp in rural Arkansas.
How much should I be making? I know that is subjective to a lot of details, but still, $55,000? $65,000?
I am really just shocked because I had imagined that I would be here for a long time, eventually owning part of this place, and it now appears that I have topped out and worn out my welcome.
Thanks for reading this if you made it this far.
Appropriate Pay
Sounds like you are getting the short end of the stick.Been in your position myself, it sucks! Not familiar with wages in the South (to me, everybody is a Southerner!) AK $65K and up for an LS. Do a search on here, severlal links have been posted as to wages in different states. Have you talked your next person in the chain of command? It may be that they don't realize they are shafting you! Good luck!
-JD-
> I manage a few crews and a couple of office personnel. I am in charge of all surveying that isn't related to construction, such as layout and CEI.
>This individual will in all likelihood be working at least in part, under me. He will be making $xx,xxx, which is more than I make.
>
> How much should I be making? I know that is subjective to a lot of details, but still, $55,000? $65,000?
>
What someone pays/charges/makes is very very location dependent. However, given your post, I would wonder the following:
Will the new hire be in charge of the construction surveying and is that a big money maker for the company? If you are in responsible charge for a few boundary matters a year and he is in charge of several construction jobs a year, the company may have decided to compensate him based on the possible billing.
If you were not satisfied before hand, knowing what someone else is making (and thinking you should make more than him/her) will probably only increase the dissatisfaction.
well, i would suggest that you work for what you demand. I would handle the situation by asking the owners to look into the pay disparity. Before I did that, I would sharpen my resume and seek outside offers quietly. No one owes you a living or fair pay, if you do move on dont burn bridges.
> if you do move on dont burn bridges.
:good: if you can. Easier said than done with most employers.
Oh, they know.
I neglected to write that when accidentally informed of the pay for the other fellow, I replied with, "well, if an unlicensed person is worth that in X city, it appears I need to move."
To the other question abut construction, I don't think the person will be involved in construction.
I would checkout this site:
http://live.laborstats.alaska.gov/occ/occ.cfm?o=171022
Obviously this is for Alaska, but if you can find the site like this that is for your state then you should be able to get some numbers.
Up here I would think the rate you are getting would be what a surveyor makes coming fresh out of college.
Your only getting screwed if you think you are getting screwed. I'd say based on your post, you don't exactly say what you make, you are on the low end of the salary range for what you do. You can either talk to your boss and see if you have a chance to improve you salary, or its time to move on.
> Your only getting screwed if you think you are getting screwed. I'd say based on your post, you don't exactly say what you make, you are on the low end of the salary range for what you do. You can either talk to your boss and see if you have a chance to improve you salary, or its time to move on.
Well, it seems like everytime someone is hired around here, my rank slips. Frankly, I think I'm done. I was told if I ever bring this subject up again, I'm fired. So I'm not bringing it up. I'm not negotiating. If they want to give me a raise, they know where to find me. I've too much experience, too much education and too much pride to beg for a raise.
I have left places before just to find out later they had to pay the replacement more than I was making after several years there. Sometimes you just need to cut your losses and move on, better for you. Sometimes management finds out too late that you weren't being unreasonable, but there always seems to be more money for new hires than giving existing employees raises, I think for whatever reason this is somewhat common, makes no sense. Sometimes too, I think management just wants to change the scenery and are tired of existing employees and that is one subtle way to get that done, maybe letting that e-mail slip wasn't an accident?
SHG
Do what you think is right for you and what is best for your loved ones.
With that said, I was in a similar situation several years ago. I was the only LS in the regional office (central California) for a ENR Top 500 engineering firm, but was not the Survey Manager. The corporate office, in the south, was hiring an Assistant Survey Manager at a higher wage than me. I told them I would not sign another document unless I got promoted to the Survey Manager with the appropriate pay. Two weeks later I was laid off and so were the other survey crew members. I had a guilty conscience for a while because the other crew members were let go, but I had knew I was getting the shaft and my personal self-worth was not going to be lessened by their higher ups. I ended up taking a job out of state which gave me great experience and now work in the beautiful San Francisco Bay area at a slightly better pay but a way better quality of life.
Best of luck!
Brad Luken, LS
AZ, CA, NV & OR
> I replied with, "well, if an unlicensed person is worth that in X city, it appears I need to move."
>
It seems that you are standing on the bridge with a jug of kerosene in one hand and a box of matches in the other.
Before you do something that you'll likely regret down the road, why don't you have a civil conversation with your supervisor about the backwards nature of this pay situation. Be prepared with some facts about your economic value to the company.
Having put your displeasure and intent to quit in an email, you may have some damage control to do as to demonstrating your continued value to the company, especially if the reply was a 'reply-all' and not just a reply to your immediate supervisor. A hot head who speaks or acts before he thinks can be a liability rather than an asset.
Someone who recognizes when they've taken inappropriate action (even if for good reason), and acknowledges that they could have taken a better course of action, is someone who shows promise of more value.
If you are intent on burning that bridge, at least have something lined up on the other end before you strike the match.
Yeah, that was my thought as well.
I've read some of the other posts made since yours. They fall into the pattern.
The thing to do is remain professional (even if others are not, in ones own opinion) and keep a dialog going. Business is business and one should not take these things personally, but rather do the best they can and negotiate the best deal they can. It is not degrading to ask for a raise, and one will not necessarily ever get one if they don't have open communication on all levels with others in the company.
In the majority of companies management is pretty poor. One must help them become better. The decision to leave should rarely be based on an event, but instead on a well persued plan of professional and career development.
Much like a land boundary decision, it is not enough to be right.
In practical terms, focus on yourself and your own relationship with the company. Do not reference or bring others into the discussion, and if others try to, deflect the conversation back to your own contributions and unique skills. If the company does not value you as much as you think appropriate, then maybe you are with the wrong company. But that doesn't make it a bad company or you a bad person.
From the tone of your post it sounds like you're reading the writing on the wall. While how much pay you receive may appear to be a significant factor in your decision making, your personal happiness and job satisfaction should also be heavily weighted in. When one finds themselves comparing themselves to others, whether in the wealth, looks or good fortune department, there's bound to be dissatisfaction. There's always someone less deserving and more rewarded. The other posters are correct in that this is not the time to be rash but rather cool and calculating. Evaluate other job opportunities in your area and network, but don't leave your company in a lurch if it can be helped. It won't be soon forgotten and it's a small world. It's been my personal experience that some of life's biggest upsets have turned out to be golden opportunities in disguise. It's all in your attitude and perspective, and that may be where a part of your problem lies.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
From your posts it sounds like there has been some tension between you and your employer before. Has it happened often? Sometimes, employers would prefer to have an employee leave their position rather than find a reason to get rid of them. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but I'm not saying it isn't. Sometimes accidents aren't really accidents.
Don't burn bridges, don't go out riding some high horse. Salaries are business so prove your worth. Remove the emotion out of it. Seems that those who will feel the pinch the most if you leave don't realize your value as you have mentioned. (Happens all the time and unfortunately it sounds like you are stuck unless some major changes are made)
Show them:
How and where you make the company money
that you assist others in need so they can make the company money
that you dedicate yourself to the company so everyone can make money
that you dedicate yourself to the client to help with repeat business
that you dedicate yourself to new technologies so the company doesn't take a learning curve hit and can possibly expand into new business sectors.
that you dedicate yourself to your work so that quality is never in question.
If that doesn't help, other options are to discuss things that may make you happier. Fewer hours with equal pay (typ if you are salary), additional vacation time, performance bonuses, profit sharing, different responsibilities, goals for career growth.
Good luck, act professional and have no regrets.
The instant a good man
looks up, he's usually gone.
I put in a lot of years at similar size firms. Your story sounds like an echo from times past.
I twisted for a while trying to decide what to do. I finally realized what was twisting me, though. It really wasn't the 'deciding', it was more realizing I had let myself get pushed into a lose-lose corner. I moved on and instantly felt better about myself, my abilities and my worth.
Good luck and smile.
I know others may argue, but sometimes it isn't all about the money. Living in a small town with all the small town ambience is in itself a perk in my book. They'd have to pay me a whole lot more to live AND work in a city. Some of these ideas might have to do more with your age. Younger folks still grabbing and climbing might be more inclined to competing for money. Some of us older folks would rather put up our feet on the porch and watch.
> Well, it seems like everytime someone is hired around here, my rank slips. Frankly, I think I'm done. I was told if I ever bring this subject up again, I'm fired.
It sounds as if you have grossly overestimated your value to your current employer. No need to burn a bridge unless you just want to. I would get another job and move on.
Everywhere I've worked, big companies and little companies, there are a few employees and new hires that become work family and will keep their jobs and will get pay raises on a regular basis.
They could lose an entire truck loaded with all the equipment down a bog and it would not cost them a day of work or any of their pay.
All others employees are just hired hands regardless of their experience and/or money making abilities.
Most everyone has or will reach a day where they are not appreciated in compensation for their efforts and it becomes time for a raise or to move on and start somewhere else.
Good luck 😉