RTK, or Robot?
I have a pretty decent sized ALTA ahead of me and I have debated using RTK, versus Robot.
Here is the situation and the reasons for my asking.
1. I have a "C" grade, at best, Instrument Man.
2. Due date is Monday, and I get to start back up on it on Saturday.
3. Paving is the main concern; not too much detail since we staked it, but there is a lot, I mean ALOT, of radius' and PI's, and meaningless, engineer ego-stroking, crazy medians.
4. I have done MAYBE 10% of the paving so far, with RTK, and that took about 3 hours. (between satellite issues, and one extremely helpless iman, it's not going as smooth as planned.)
5. I need to tie sidewalks. Architectural plan was not included.
I can run both just fine. RTK obviously has its issues with being close to buildings and losing fix. BUT the robot has its issues with line of sight(i.e Plantar Trees, cars, etc).
And trust me, I've thought of the idea of taking both. I just can't muster the courage to trust this certain instrument man, who has had issues with missing important shots, lying about what he has shot, not knowing what to shoot, etc.
Will you be using a base rover or are you on a network? If you have good coordinate quality, RTK makes for efficient work and you'll often take more shots and get more detail due to the ease and convenience of it. If you are able, set control for the robot in and around the buildings in order to get the detail work done without worry of losing fix and poor coordinate quality. We use both and like you mentioned, both have their advantages and disadvantages. All of our RTK work is done threw a paid network (if the cell service is good). We've been very pleased with the residuals.
Use the RTK to establish control. Do the topo ties with the Robot.
By history, 95% of my job is done using the RTK as they are mostly in open pit mines.
Leave the i-man at the house and take the rtk and robot. There's no right or wrong answer regarding which to use, although for building locations I'd rather have reflectorless than robotic. So long as the methods used achieve the accuracy required, user choice is the rule.
Maybe no one else here sees a problem, but I do. Start on Saturday and deliver on Monday is unhealthy. In more ways than one. It won't stop until everyone gets in the habit of telling the crazy clients that is unreasonable and it's just not going to work out that way. Life is too short.
npritter1, post: 333877, member: 10170 wrote: RTK, or Robot?
I have a pretty decent sized ALTA ahead of me and I have debated using RTK, versus Robot.
Here is the situation and the reasons for my asking.
1. I have a "C" grade, at best, Instrument Man.
2. Due date is Monday, and I get to start back up on it on Saturday.
3. Paving is the main concern; not too much detail since we staked it, but there is a lot, I mean ALOT, of radius' and PI's, and meaningless, engineer ego-stroking, crazy medians.
4. I have done MAYBE 10% of the paving so far, with RTK, and that took about 3 hours. (between satellite issues, and one extremely helpless iman, it's not going as smooth as planned.)
5. I need to tie sidewalks. Architectural plan was not included.I can run both just fine. RTK obviously has its issues with being close to buildings and losing fix. BUT the robot has its issues with line of sight(i.e Plantar Trees, cars, etc).
And trust me, I've thought of the idea of taking both. I just can't muster the courage to trust this certain instrument man, who has had issues with missing important shots, lying about what he has shot, not knowing what to shoot, etc.
Using RTK on commercial parking lots is the fastest thing you can imagine with a motivated, experienced operator who knows how to code descriptors and walk for maximum efficiency. Trust me, in the right hands it is really easy and fast. A robot can't compare.
Holy Cow, post: 333891, member: 50 wrote: Maybe no one else here sees a problem, but I do. Start on Saturday and deliver on Monday is unhealthy. In more ways than one. It won't stop until everyone gets in the habit of telling the crazy clients that is unreasonable and it's just not going to work out that way. Life is too short.
You have done 30% of the field work in one day? And the rest of the field work, the drafting, the checks, the notes, etc all done before 5:00 PM Monday? I am alternating between my impressed face and my scared face.
🙂
Bruce Small, post: 333896, member: 1201 wrote: Using RTK on commercial parking lots is the fastest thing you can imagine with a motivated, experienced operator who knows how to code descriptors and walk for maximum efficiency. Trust me, in the right hands it is really easy and fast. A robot can't compare.
We use field to finish, and we often will have one guy with the RTK rod, another with the DC. Sounds lame, but while one is typing/coding, running the DC the other is walking to the next shot...if you have a good i-man.
Bruce Small, post: 333896, member: 1201 wrote: Using RTK on commercial parking lots is the fastest thing you can imagine with a motivated, experienced operator who knows how to code descriptors and walk for maximum efficiency. Trust me, in the right hands it is really easy and fast. A robot can't compare.
I consider myself proficient with both types of instruments. I think data collection can be done faster with the robot in the right conditions. The catch is you have to figure in line of sight and time spent setting up the gun and shooting the backsight. That can actually make it even out. I think the only way to achieve the production you require is to have 2 people: 1 guy filling in all the tree covered and close to the building stuff robotically while the 2nd guy zips around with the GPS. Anything he cannot pickup GPS you zap with the robot. If he's that 'bad' have him work in the same area as you to keep an eye on him and answer questions. If you are trying to avoid telling him he sucks, just says it's so he can be available to hop behind the gun if you need him to.
I wouldn't argue with Bruce re RTK v. Robot. But I think his experience might be different in Portland than what it is in Tucson.
The conditions and specs drive the tool used. The site may lend itself to different methods in the same spot depending on activity. Deciding which is better can only happen on the ground.
What I don't see is any mention of how to achieve ALTA specs on your error budget. RTK and Robot don't tell enough of the story to know...
Team up with an experienced solo operator for this project. Run two crews at the same time, and knock that rascal out, Chris and I do this all the time. Having said that, it is a very short time frame.
Bruce Small, post: 333896, member: 1201 wrote: Using RTK on commercial parking lots is the fastest thing you can imagine with a motivated, experienced operator who knows how to code descriptors and walk for maximum efficiency. Trust me, in the right hands it is really easy and fast. A robot can't compare.
As others have indicated, you live in the Land of No Trees. RTK and parking lots are a rougher go where I am. Here's one that I surveyed a few months ago:
I'm working on an existing site plan of a facility above Chico that has been used as a Calif Conservation Corps camp and a tree nursery (not an ALTA). It has 15 acres of open field which was the nursery (ironically no trees) which my partner RTK topo'd in one day and 15 acres of buildings and a lot of detail like sidewalks, roads, big concrete vaults, etc. Because the place was a tree nursery there a lot of large conifers, I mean an abnormal number of 24 to 30" trees everywhere they could squeeze them in. We are still adding in control points. There is no way we could RTK it. The trees really create problems with line of sight. I'm cranking out robot shots while Dan helps me move the backsight/foresights and finds new control points we need. I've got about 8 acres of the topo done including the worst of the detail. Should finish topo'ing this week then do some boundary traverse=more fun.
The photo I posted above is part of a 28-acre topo, intensely developed. I RTK'd a few control points around the perimeter, but otherwise did the whole thing robotic. I had about 130 hours in the field, including time to open and dip 56 manholes. It took 103 control points to see everything.
I'm up to 33, four of those are boundary monuments, though.
I try to get my control points in network fashion but I've had to accept some as a single tie (4 sets). Really it could be to get 20 shots on some of them. I'm shooting the building corners with the 360 so they are about a tenth off but that's good enough for our needs, these buildings are nowhere near the boundary.
